Why did you choose DCT over MANUAL? - Page 2 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
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post #11 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 03:43 AM
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Get yourself a test ride on a VFR1200 or an NC700/750, even a DN-01 with DCT if you can't wait. The system is almost the same, the AT's being the third generation

I borrowed an NC for an hour before pre-ordering my AT last year - literally was convinced by it within a couple of roundabouts :-)
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post #12 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 03:51 AM
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You're absolutely right. And no I haven't ridden one.

So I take it you own a DCT. Care to share what I'm missing here?

I mean, can you blip the throttle and brake on a DCT? Can you roll on the throttle and modulate the clutch on a DCT?

Honestly I'm just curious what's the benefit of the DCT?

FYI - hardly any dealership in California will let you test ride the ATs.
TBH Nemesis, I don't think you are 'just curious'. I think you are totally unconvinced, think we are all mad and just trying to start a fight. (But never mind that's what forums are all about)
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post #13 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 04:03 AM
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This doesn't get talked about as much as it should but IMHO the reason the DCT is so appealing to 95% of riders who try it is because of this effect. Go to 2 mins 40 seconds into the video. (There is another rolling road video Honda made which illustrates the effect better but I can't find it now).
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post #14 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 05:12 AM
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That's a good video and demonstrates the seamless acceleration / zero loss of forward drive very well, although I'd like to see a comparison versus a manual gearbox rider doing clutchless upshifts....... the effect on the rear suspension would be far less
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post #15 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 05:39 AM
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I think what people don't realise is how settled the bike is approaching and into a bend. If you are riding in a relaxed way and are prepared to forego front braking then the DCT keeps the bike stance flat into the corner and through it - even if the box makes a change mid corner. This last aspect is what puts most non-dct people right off, but to me the weight redistribution is so minimal that it doesn't cause an issue once you are expecting it can happen.
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post #16 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 06:30 AM
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Entirely agree Mike - the clutch work is impeccable and keeps everything balanced - that slipper clutch is a cut above others I've tried

At first I found the midcorner shift a little disconcerting, but the further away from D mode you are (S1, 2, 3) the less it does it. When riding in D mode - which as you know will lug 6th at 35mph - I found the lack of engine braking a little disconcerting at first when entering bends, however soon realised that a couple of dabs of the thumb sort that out and make for a brilliant experience as the DCT handles the upshifts once you're on the gas

For me whilst the four auto modes are great, there's nothing like riding the DCT in full manual - becomes second nature really quickly, holding onto 3rd and 4th through a favourite set of sweepers is sublime

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post #17 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 07:43 AM
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Entirely agree Mike - the clutch work is impeccable and keeps everything balanced - that slipper clutch is a cut above others I've tried

At first I found the midcorner shift a little disconcerting, but the further away from D mode you are (S1, 2, 3) the less it does it. When riding in D mode - which as you know will lug 6th at 35mph - I found the lack of engine braking a little disconcerting at first when entering bends, however soon realised that a couple of dabs of the thumb sort that out and make for a brilliant experience as the DCT handles the upshifts once you're on the gas

For me whilst the four auto modes are great, there's nothing like riding the DCT in full manual - becomes second nature really quickly, holding onto 3rd and 4th through a favourite set of sweepers is sublime
Not so for me. As you have probably realised I ride an NC750X DCT (I decided to wait until the teething troubles were sorted before switching to AT and given the delivery problem I made a lucky choice). anyway the NC in manual mode is a bit of a problem for me. Just as you really get flying in each gear you hit the rev limiter at 6400. A few people ride NC's in manual mode and no doubt get used to where you have to hit the paddle but for me it was frustrating.
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post #18 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 09:32 AM
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Yes - peak power on those is about 150rpm from the rev limiter, peak torque at 4750rpm - so I imagine the auto modes keep you in the torque wave quite nicely
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post #19 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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TBH Nemesis, I don't think you are 'just curious'. I think you are totally unconvinced, think we are all mad and just trying to start a fight. (But never mind that's what forums are all about)
Mike
I appreciate your honesty.

So, here's mine...not trying to start a fight. I'm really trying to understand what I'm missing about the DCT.

Having come from a sportbike/racing background, giving up the clutch/gear shifter is hard to do. And it's essentially what makes a motorcycle a motorcycle IMHO. Thinking long time riders would feel the same, I'm trying to understand what convinced them to make the switch. If it's laziness...that's not good enough reason for me.

But I'm not young anymore and my body is falling apart. <--I'm serious. So I really need to think twice about my purchase. Hence the thread.
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post #20 of 97 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 10:12 AM
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Because it's better than the manual model (I've done loads of miles on both), and I already have other manual bikes including an Africa Twin. Ridden for 35+ years, all year round all weather

There's a general lack of understanding amongst those who've not spent time on the DCT. A bloke came up to me today in the street and asked, "Is that the automatic one or the proper one". It's 2016 - yes it has automatic modes, but they can all be overridden / intervened with in the blink of an eye if you so wish (think modern DSG boxed car systems with paddles) plus a full manual mode. In manual, it will hold any gear and bounce off the limited all day long until you trigger the next cog. It shifts up and down the box way faster than I can perform clutchless shifts on the manual. Yes, when the conditions are shite and you're filtering through rush hour traffic after a hard day it is wonderful to just lob it in Drive mode and treat it like a big scooter

Something highly addictive about keeping the throttle pinned and lobbing cogs at it with your index finger with pinpoint accuracy. Constant seamless drive - it's brilliant

The slipper clutch is superb when you want to drop 2 or three gears at a time. With a pillion it's fantastic - the seamless drive eliminating any chance of clashing helmets

I look at the DCT as being many bikes in one package. I'm convinced it's the future. Don't forget, it's been on production Hondas since 2009 - so not really new technology

To answer your questions, no - you can't blip the throttle (unless stationary in neutral) and you can't roll on the gas and modulate the clutches. It's a very different experience, but one that took me literally two or three minutes to become comfortable with. I've not once ghosted the clutch lever or gone for the foot shift...... your brain recalibrates really fast

Would urge all DCT owners to force themselves to only use full manual mode once every few rides. It's where the bike really shines in my opinion
This assessment is spot-on.

I test rode both versions and bought the DCT because it was notably quicker. In fact, if only the manual was available, I would have just kept my S10.

The DCT tranny really makes the engine punch above its weight. It also takes the drudgery out of city commuting and is brilliant in the dirt as well. Like the post above, I also think the bike really shines in manual mode, both onroad and off, and it's the mode I use most for fun riding. For drudge riding or when you just want to chill, the automodes are very handy though.
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