AT vs KTM/BMW - Page 3 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
Thread Tools
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 10:16 AM
Senior Member
eltel62's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
Gents....on the tall bike front, i've owned multiple GS's (air/water), Multistradas (air/water), a Caponord (water) and a Stelvio. I will ALWAYS own a Multistrada (i think) as i like my bikes a little bit more sporting that full out touring at this juncture in my riding life. If i was a longer distance road rider i'd opt for a GS for certain, maybe even a Super Tenere (a little on the heavy side for me). My question to the two of you (or others) is do you think i will be seriously disappointed in the AT or is the experience totally different ("different type" of fun, different ownership experience, and totally different feel, i.e., engine, taller, wheel config) and one that could justify owning two 500lb upright twins in harmony? Or will i most likely be disappointed at the end of the day? I think the former, but am trying to formulate a more definitive opinion prior to pulling the trigger on one and it costing me $2,500 to $3,000 to determine such! I know the specs of the AT well, I know what it is and what it is not, but that doesn't mean I know the bike exactly feels when riding on the open road. Yep, i'd be buying one without having even sat on one. Nope, i don't do dirt, but it doesn't mean that i won't.

Thanks in advance,
I don't think you will be disappointed with an AT, it puts a huge smile on my face every time I ride it. I can't imagine the experience be a "stellar" change to what you already have though. For me, a heavy chap, the rear suspension is pretty poor and loaded up touring would be out of the question until the rear shock was sorted out and I find the lack of cruise control a poor omission. I knew the latter before I purchased of course so I mustn't grumble on that point (but I would still like it).

If I was in your position I would wait for a 2018 model, feedback from users and other niggles will of be ironed out by then and the bike may be even better than it is now. So why did I buy a 2016 model? Well, I didn't have a bike, I went in to look at a Triumph, passed the AT in the showroom and it was SOLD before I threw a leg over it. You on the other hand have super wheels at your disposal already and may be able to wait a little longer to decide.

just my thoughts.
oalvarez likes this.
eltel62 is online now  
Sponsored Links
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 07:43 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
After owning a 990 KTM and still owning a R1200GSW, I can say that the AT handles all offroad situations with a bit more grace than either one of those and will leave you less tired at the end of the day. It is still a heavy bugger to pick up when you screw up though.....the BMW shines here because it very rarely tips past the cylinders. Dare I say the AT handles almost as well as my 640 adventure? No quite.
Brokein2 is offline  
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:54 AM
Senior Member
eltel62's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 244
Touratech and BMW join forces to build Rambler

Originally Posted by Paige View Post
Ned from ADV wrote a brief piece for CW comparing the AT to various other rivals on the market like the KTM 1190 and 1290, the BMW 1200GS and the S10.

As many have said the closest rival is the KTM 950/990.
Looks like the AT is bucking the market, the more the merrier. Perhaps the AT has made a big impact and spured the rest into rethinking their product set. Copy of article below.

Motorcycle accessories brand Touratech has partnered with BMW Motorrad to produce the ultimate in off-roading machines, the Rambler.
Based on the brand's award-winning adventure machine, the R1200GS, the Rambler is reportedly still a concept, but Touratech claim that it is 'ready-to-go'. Two models have been built and tested; one in the black-grey-yellow Touratech design, and the other in the classic BMW Motorsport colours of white, blue and red.

With everything but the necessary kit removed, and a minimalistic carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP), enduro-style body, the Rambler weighs in at less than 200kg that's more than 50kg less than the standard model.But under its lightweight exterior, this wolf in sheep's clothing hides BMW's powerful 1200cc liquid-cooled Boxer, which produces 123bhp and is capable of pushing the standard bike to a top speed of 125mph.

Rather cleverly, Touratech's developers have combined the engine-gearbox unit from BMW's R1200R Roadster model with the shaft drive from the GS, giving the Rambler a directly responsive, high-torque drive system.Meanwhile, the Rambler's chassis is fitted with a conventional fork, rather than the GS's Telelever system.

Touratech claim the bike is extremely stable, even at high speeds, thanks to specially-tuned suspension, and has superb braking ability due to its lightweight single disc break, which surprisingly features ABS.

A CFRP engine guard panel and protection bars prevent damage from stones and drops on rough terrain, while am 18-litre fuel tank sits in front of the slim, enduro-style seat.
There's no word of whether this modern interpretation of BMW's revered HP2 will make production, but if the response to this prototype is anything to go by, Touratech have a winner on its hands.

Source of the article is
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TTBM.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	10.3 KB
ID:	14425  
notTobyG likes this.
eltel62 is online now  
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
eltel62's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 244
also on TT website with more info
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rambler.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	516.3 KB
ID:	14433  

250X7 (first bike 17 years old, T-Boned it in 3 weeks), CB250K4 (needed wheels), CB350K4 (last wheels needed replacing, ran engine without oil after rebuild, DOH!), T500 (didnt handle, didn't care, 2-stroke smoke - EPIC!), 883 Sportster (oh dear, mistake), 1340 Lowrider Covertible (stolen before a year old), Daytona 1200 (heavy, 147BHP mad lump), DR350 (reliable small thumper), CRF1000 (love it)
eltel62 is online now  
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:38 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 5
I've spent some pretty decent saddle time on a BMW 800GS touring in both Colorado and New Zealand and really enjoyed the bike. Since picking up my AT, however, I believe I made the purchase that's right for me. Feels much lighter in my opinion just leaning it off the side stand and when the bike is in motion.
stephenmarklay likes this.
frbld600 is offline  
post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 08:08 AM
kaosad's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Darwin, Australia
Posts: 39
I think it's all about what your personal tastes are. My previous adnventure bikes have been a f650gs rotax thumper and a ktm 990 and they both where great bikes in there own ways. That 990 ktm was such an exciting machine to ride off road. I felt like you could really smash around on it and it seemed to love the abuse. Not really a great long distance tourer Though. The BMW thumper on the other hand was like an old tractor but I still had many great adventures on it. I spent a lot of money upgrading that bikes suspension and pretty much everything else as well. In the end it was a surprising good long distance tourer for a bike with 50hp (unbelievable fuel economy). The big down side to BMW and KTM especially in the part of Australia where I live is that parts and services are stupidly expensive.

Last edited by kaosad; 03-27-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: poor grammer
kaosad is offline  
post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 08:40 AM
-mek-'s Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 59
I rode my -07 BMW R 1200 GS (normal ABS, no ESA) 6 years, 50 kkms. Got it equipped to very comfortable travel adventure bike for a tall guy like me, Givi AirFlow windshield, Sargent heated seats, Touratech rally footpegs, bar risers, Rostra electronic cruise control...

My GS was allways reliable and got the total 71 kkms with very few repairs, the mots expensive of which was the battery replacement. It was very comfortable travel bike that also can be ridden on very bad roads, even some off road. I really loved my GS, but to be frank, it had its' shortcomings. At least without ESA, the chassis is good on tarmac, but on bad gravel roads it's like a sawbuck. The GS is agile when riding, but clumsy and heavy to push. During the last two seasons I've testrode V-Strom 1000, Triumph 800 XC, GS-LC and Adventure, KTM 1050, 1290 SA, 1190 R and the new Africa Twin two times. That's of course something I shouldn't have done... must have lighter and more agile bike...

I really liked the KTMs, most of 1050. The wider size of tires made KTM 1290 SA and GS-LC to turn clumsy at tight low speed corners compared to bikes that have 150 size back tire. Also I didn't like the clickicg noise of 1290s' front suspension, even if was otherwise very good. And the endless power! I even didn't have use for the 150 hp of the 1190 R, so good the bike was. So I liked most the 1050. Honda was also very good, felt the lightest and most agile to handle of them all, thank's to good weight concentration. Tank is a bit narrower than KTM and doesn't force the tall riders' knees wide like on KTMs and V-Strom. The build quality ("feel") seems best in GS-LC, Honda second, then Suzuki and the last the KTMs. The greatest con against Honda was the lack of cruise control (and expensive aftermarket CC from McCruise).

If KTM would have better reputation in reliability, I had chosen the new 1090 R. The same agility and good ergonomics of 1050 + 25 hp more, 21"/18" wheels and better suspension. The 1090 R is a few hundred euros cheaper here in Finland, than the new Africa Twin. The KTM is better equipped as standard (center stand, 12 V output, crasbars) and has much cheaper aftermarket CC. But, I personally know too many owners of 1190 with too many frequent visits at workshop so I ended up to the new Africa Twin.

I got only ridden one tank before winter, but here the comparison to my former 07' GS. Honda really does not have that good crunch of power under 5000 rpm, that GS had (in torque the KTM 1050 felt quite equal to old GS). But the gas dosing is way better and softer at Honda. Not as perfect as KTM 1050, but way better than GS. Also better than new GS-LC. The engine runs so smooth, just the Triumph 800 XC is maybe even smoother. And from 5000 rpm there is enough power.

Even if Honda is just 12 kgs lighter than GS, it feels much more lighter. The weight concentration and ergonomics is near perfect. The only adjustment on ergonomics I made was changing the footpegs to the lower one from Radan. Time will tell if I need a Sargent seat, until now the OEM seat feels fine.

Compared to 07' GS the chassis of Africa Twin is superb. I just had time for one real gravel road test ride on October, but allready from the first meter I could feel the difference. No matter how rought the road was it felt like silk after GSs' sawbuck, I could immediately trust to the AT. I swore to ride the Old Alta post road first and last time at once, but now I have bike that has suspension, maybe... we'll see...

Also the ergonomics of Honda is very good, but compared to my former, customized GS the comfort isn't yet just as good. Wind protection is however surprisingly good, tie with the GS-LC, bot not in the level of Givi AirFlow on old GS. My bike is the demo bike from dealer, with the Touring pack, center stand, set of 3 cases and touring windscreen. The screen was awfull and the MRA spoiler didn't help much, so I swapped it to MRA Vario Touring, that has got good reviews, better than AirFlow on AT. I've now made two very short testrides, mainly for testing the cruise control, but also noticed the MRA to be much quieter than Honda Touring Screen.

The pre-tax price of new CRF 1000 L in Finland is over 2000 more expensive as anywhere else. So you would think that at least "mandatory" heated grips and 12 V output would be standard here in Finland, but nope I tried to sell my GS and would have got the AT from Europe, but then there was this demo bike with travel pack in good price at local dealer so it was gone
-mek- is offline  
post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 09:05 AM
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by frbld600 View Post
I've spent some pretty decent saddle time on a BMW 800GS touring in both Colorado and New Zealand and really enjoyed the bike. Since picking up my AT, however, I believe I made the purchase that's right for me. Feels much lighter in my opinion just leaning it off the side stand and when the bike is in motion.
I am likely making this switch next week. I really like my 800gs. Some things I just plain like better than the AT. However, the AT felt way less top heavy and even me with pretty long legs at 60 the slightly lower saddle height on the AT is better. I am sure it will be easier for me to handle off road.
stephenmarklay is online now  
post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 09:57 PM
MotoPumps's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY
Posts: 76
You have a chance to vote and make your opinion known outside this forum!
Q-Ball likes this.


2016 Rally Red Manual Africa Twin
MotoPumps is offline  

Quick Reply

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome