Africa Twin vs Super Tenere - Page 2 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 12:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Paige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 193
Paige is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 08:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paige View Post
In terms of fuel economy it depends on what you're actually getting done. But for the most part performance costs something and it's usually gasoline.
I think if I could get 5-10hp more out of it without ruining reliability or fuel economy I'd be a happy boy. But then, I haven't ridden the bike yet so maybe when I do I won't feel like I need it.

I'll wait to see what people start doing for performance mods once there are more owners out there.
anotherbiker is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 02:20 AM
Senior Member
 
marsbeetle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Cape Town, ZA
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherbiker View Post
I've never added an aftermarket exhaust and done a remap on a bike before, but I'm considering it with the AT as I can't help but feel there's more potential to be had out of a 1000cc engine. But I'm a bit nervous about it. For those who have done this sort of thing before, does it affect reliability or longevity of the engine? Does it tend to significantly reduce fuel economy?
As someone who has added an aftermarket exhaust to many of my previously owned motorcycles I can say the following:

Generally, I try to avoid a full system replacement because the cost outweighs the performance gains unless you are going racing. As soon as you change the headers on an exhaust system then you should(have to sometimes) look at changing the air/fuel ratio which means additional equipment and tuning. That is why I only mentioned weight and throttle response as the gains in my previous comment. To me they are significant enough and cost effective if you simply change the silencer and remove the catalytic converter. The engine will still run smoothly after this and you don't have to change the fuelling. I've always noticed better throttle response after this small change because the emissions standards tend to suck the life out of the engine and restrict the airflow. The added bonus is the sound

You don't get more HP unless you go the whole route and do the fine tuning to match a new full system exhaust. Sometimes manufacturers like Ducati and KTM will offer a factory exhaust option that comes with a new fuel map but I don't see Honda going this route with the AT. It is still hellishly expensive though.
marsbeetle is offline  
 
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2016, 08:44 AM
Member
 
rider_marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sumner County, TN
Posts: 95
Garage
To get to 75lbs of torque on my C14 it takes an additional 1,000+ RPM. Torque tops out at just under 90lbs. Those two 500cc jugs are doing well for the AT!

Marc

AMA & IBA member
2017 690 Enduro R | 2012 Concours 14
rider_marc is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 10:55 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
I put 17k on a 2012 S10.

I now have 485 on a DCT.

Wind protection. AT, less buffeting.
General road handling. AT, I have had some sort of pivot just behind the headstock on the 10. Even with 21/18 that AT likes the twisties.
Power. S10, no comparison. The AT might be fooling you with the perfect linear torque curve tho.
Seat. AT. I got used the stock 10 seat and came to not mind it at all. The AT is a smidge softer and feels better with the AK sheepskin.
Ergos. AT fits me nice.
Brakes. S10 has a slight edge here. Possible because it has less travel so a lot less dive etc but also I liked the linked brakes. The AT is getting better as they bed in tho.
Susp. AT easily. The 10 felt sporty stiff and at time bumps upset the line. Maybe apples to oranges?
2-up. My wife said the seat on the AT might be a bit bigger and nicer shaped. Tie as of now.
Fit/Finish/overall design. S10 has a slight edge so far in my limited time working and riding on it.
Fuel consumption. AT, I'm already getting 47-48 on 2-lane. I expect that to be around 50 after a few thousand miles. Moving faster on the superslab it dropped to 45-ish.

edit: Engine heat. S10. I have yet to ride a bike with better engine heat control.
Ease of coming to a stop. AT, steering nice a light to easly drop one foot as you com to a stop. The S10 just felt reluctant.

The two areas the S10 wins in ease of maintenance with shaft drive and power. The rest is pretty much AT.

I reserve the right to change my mind as the miles rack up.

after 2k miles edit II: two-up my wife like the AT much better. I'm thinking the general size and shape help.

Brakes on the AT are pretty friken good. Tie as of now.

After 7+ hours planted in the saddle yesterday my ass started to complain about 5.5 to 6 hours in. I was using an Alaskan sheepskin as a buffer.

DCT is just so nice and easy. You don't realize how easy it makes riding the bike until you don't have to clutch and shift 500 times in one day.
rider_marc likes this.
WIcrf1000 is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 02:56 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 84
I took the S10 for a very long test ride before committing to the AT.
It really is a great bike and the only thing that stopped me is the age of the S10 and the amazing deal I got on my AT.
The S10 must be due a major update soon!
The model I took out had the electronically adjustable suspension which I was unsure about at the start and thought it's a gimmick,but I soon had to change my mind,it really is very useful and very noticeable. Also the shaft drive was a big selling point for me,but I'm also aware you loose also of power in a shaft drive system. The S10 is also suited better for road use over the AT due to it having a 19"front wheel and this was apparent on my test ride.
Comparing the power between the AT and the S10 was not as noticeable as I thought it might of been,yes the S10 seems to have more torque but it's 200cc bigger but outright acceleration seems very similar which I think will be due to the S10's bulk over the AT.

One thing I will say that could make people buy the S10 over the AT if they don't intend to do lots off road is the S10 has a very good cruise control system and the S10 I took out came standard with heated grips which unlike the items found on the AT actually work.
The S10 has a bigger fuel tank than the AT but it's also not as good on fuel as the AT so I guess total milage from a tank of fuel may be around the same on both bikes.

Makes me wonder why people buy BMW's GSA's over the Yam S10's,looking on the internet owners of S10's seem to have very little in the way of problems compared to the BMW's which seem to suffer all sorts of issues.
I'd rather have the S10 and have a spare £5k in my pocket iv just saved over the BMW.

The AT does make a decent road bike even though it's more suited to the rough stuff than black top,iv been very surprised with the handling of the AT and how well it goes around corners,yes it gets slightly flustered if pushed really hard but it's not built tear up corners.
Also that LED headlight is the best light iv ever used on a standard setup,the spread of light is fantastic on both dipped and main beam.
The display on the AT is nice and clear and iv yet to have issues in any condition reading it,one thing I think Honda could do is make the display screen anti-glare,as some times if the sun is behind you it can make it slightly harder to read.
Q-Ball is online now  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 05:32 AM
Member
 
Djairouks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Ball View Post
I took the S10 for a very long test ride before committing to the AT.
It really is a great bike and the only thing that stopped me is the age of the S10 and the amazing deal I got on my AT.
The S10 must be due a major update soon!
The model I took out had the electronically adjustable suspension which I was unsure about at the start and thought it's a gimmick,but I soon had to change my mind,it really is very useful and very noticeable. Also the shaft drive was a big selling point for me,but I'm also aware you loose also of power in a shaft drive system. The S10 is also suited better for road use over the AT due to it having a 19"front wheel and this was apparent on my test ride.
Comparing the power between the AT and the S10 was not as noticeable as I thought it might of been,yes the S10 seems to have more torque but it's 200cc bigger but outright acceleration seems very similar which I think will be due to the S10's bulk over the AT.

One thing I will say that could make people buy the S10 over the AT if they don't intend to do lots off road is the S10 has a very good cruise control system and the S10 I took out came standard with heated grips which unlike the items found on the AT actually work.
The S10 has a bigger fuel tank than the AT but it's also not as good on fuel as the AT so I guess total milage from a tank of fuel may be around the same on both bikes.

Makes me wonder why people buy BMW's GSA's over the Yam S10's,looking on the internet owners of S10's seem to have very little in the way of problems compared to the BMW's which seem to suffer all sorts of issues.
I'd rather have the S10 and have a spare £5k in my pocket iv just saved over the BMW.

The AT does make a decent road bike even though it's more suited to the rough stuff than black top,iv been very surprised with the handling of the AT and how well it goes around corners,yes it gets slightly flustered if pushed really hard but it's not built tear up corners.
Also that LED headlight is the best light iv ever used on a standard setup,the spread of light is fantastic on both dipped and main beam.
The display on the AT is nice and clear and iv yet to have issues in any condition reading it,one thing I think Honda could do is make the display screen anti-glare,as some times if the sun is behind you it can make it slightly harder to read.
Let me tell you I also wonder the same, my Yamaha mechanic and friend owns an XT1200 and he said it's extremelly reliable he's around 30K KM, when he did the big service, everything was flawless so I'll never understand the BMW interest. He said that's what you get with japanese, rock solid reliability !
I have owned only Yamahas since my now 10 years of riding, a XJ6 to pass my license, then a glorious white FZ8 and last was a blue MT-09 that I really loved, but felt I would kill myself without electronics on it and the not so good brakes and suspension !

So it kind of annoyed me not finding what I wanted in Yamahas, The Tracer 900 is not comfy and electronics are meh too much like the MT, he made me try his Tenere but I was pretty affraid of it's huge weight, so though the engine was fun I just didn't feel too good riding this monster.
For my brand loyalty and loving the Yamaha finish and ergonomics, I didn't want to love the Honda, but really I feel so at home on it that it was a no brainer, there was no way i wouldn't buy it, so take that from a Yam lover the AT is that good !


Then to the power argument I'd say this, I always give a look at the Akrapovic website, they test stock against their exhaust and give the curves. Even if you argue their tests might not be so accurate, logic would say you can still compare motorcycles, the tests being made by the same people and setup.

Look at those 2 curves, really the power is eaten by the drive shaft on the Tenere, theory says a drive shaft can diminish engine power by 15-20%, that's rougly the case here and the power then is pretty matched with the Honda, but the AT is still lighter than the Yamaha !
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	XT1200.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	228.7 KB
ID:	24049   Click image for larger version

Name:	CRF 1000.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	224.9 KB
ID:	24057  
Djairouks is online now  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 06:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djairouks View Post
Let me tell you I also wonder the same, my Yamaha mechanic and friend owns an XT1200 and he said it's extremelly reliable he's around 30K KM, when he did the big service, everything was flawless so I'll never understand the BMW interest. He said that's what you get with japanese, rock solid reliability !
I have owned only Yamahas since my now 10 years of riding, a XJ6 to pass my license, then a glorious white FZ8 and last was a blue MT-09 that I really loved, but felt I would kill myself without electronics on it and the not so good brakes and suspension !

So it kind of annoyed me not finding what I wanted in Yamahas, The Tracer 900 is not comfy and electronics are meh too much like the MT, he made me try his Tenere but I was pretty affraid of it's huge weight, so though the engine was fun I just didn't feel too good riding this monster.
For my brand loyalty and loving the Yamaha finish and ergonomics, I didn't want to love the Honda, but really I feel so at home on it that it was a no brainer, there was no way i wouldn't buy it, so take that from a Yam lover the AT is that good !


Then to the power argument I'd say this, I always give a look at the Akrapovic website, they test stock against their exhaust and give the curves. Even if you argue their tests might not be so accurate, logic would say you can still compare motorcycles, the tests being made by the same people and setup.

Look at those 2 curves, really the power is eaten by the drive shaft on the Tenere, theory says a drive shaft can diminish engine power by 15-20%, that's rougly the case here and the power then is pretty matched with the Honda, but the AT is still lighter than the Yamaha !
The only reason I chose the AT over the S10 was the AT is bang up to date and I got a fantastic deal on it. I personally thought the S10 handled its weight very well indeed,but it's been around in its current shape for many years now and must be due a update sooner or later.
I love my AT but do feel like Yamaha have the edge over the rest of the Japanese makers in regards to build quality and finish. Feel like Honda have slipped over the last decade.
They dropped the Blackbird and replaced it with the VFR1200 which is over priced and has had many niggles,the ST1300 Pan is in the bible I think and the current Goldwing GL1800 has been around in its current form since 2001!!!!!! Back then it cost around £17000 now it's close to £25k why would you pay £8k more for a 16 year old design which hasn't had any significant overall.
There still selling the CB1000R which has been in production since 2006 and cost nearly as much as a Yam MT-10,I know which I'd buy!

Maybe Honda are changing there ways,they have some better models in there line up now,they have dusted off the AT name and that's doing well,the NC line up is popular with the commuters,the MSX 125(Grom) is a amazing little bike,and the new off road super scoot thing the X-ADV looks **** cool but cost nearly as much as a new AT,not sure if the market needs a off road scooter but Honda are about to find out. I'd have one as it looks different but not sure I'd pay £9600 for one.
The new Blades look very nice especially the SP-2
Q-Ball is online now  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 07:04 AM
Member
 
Djairouks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Ball View Post
The only reason I chose the AT over the S10 was the AT is bang up to date and I got a fantastic deal on it. I personally thought the S10 handled its weight very well indeed,but it's been around in its current shape for many years now and must be due a update sooner or later.
I love my AT but do feel like Yamaha have the edge over the rest of the Japanese makers in regards to build quality and finish. Feel like Honda have slipped over the last decade.
They dropped the Blackbird and replaced it with the VFR1200 which is over priced and has had many niggles,the ST1300 Pan is in the bible I think and the current Goldwing GL1800 has been around in its current form since 2001!!!!!! Back then it cost around £17000 now it's close to £25k why would you pay £8k more for a 16 year old design which hasn't had any significant overall.
There still selling the CB1000R which has been in production since 2006 and cost nearly as much as a Yam MT-10,I know which I'd buy!

Maybe Honda are changing there ways,they have some better models in there line up now,they have dusted off the AT name and that's doing well,the NC line up is popular with the commuters,the MSX 125(Grom) is a amazing little bike,and the new off road super scoot thing the X-ADV looks **** cool but cost nearly as much as a new AT,not sure if the market needs a off road scooter but Honda are about to find out. I'd have one as it looks different but not sure I'd pay £9600 for one.
The new Blades look very nice especially the SP-2
Well it could be because, if I'm not mistaken only Yamaha stil manufactures in Japan, the hondas for europe are made in Italy, so maybe the materials and quality are less than the japanese would do !

Though I'm not really convinced, My MT-09 was well put together, but I still think the AT has a slight edge and I wasn't really impressed by the Tenere in this aspect either. The Tracer 900's plastics don't feel better or more adjusted than the Honda, tastes and colours as we say, I find it on par mostly but the Honda details are less crude to me !
Q-Ball likes this.

Last edited by Djairouks; 05-14-2017 at 07:07 AM.
Djairouks is online now  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 07:21 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djairouks View Post
Well it could be because, if I'm not mistaken only Yamaha stil manufactures in Japan, the hondas for europe are made in Italy, so maybe the materials and quality are less than the japanese would do !

Though I'm not really convinced, My MT-09 was well put together, but I still think the AT has a slight edge and I wasn't really impressed by the Tenere in this aspect either. The Tracer 900's plastics don't feel better or more adjusted than the Honda, tastes and colours as we say, I find it on par mostly but the Honda details are less crude to me !
The only fault I can find with the AT as far as visual build quality issues are the front of the engine cases behind the headers,on mine and others iv seen they seem very roughly finished,but this is just been fussy,but all the same it is a visual part of the bike.

One thing I think Yamaha are better at than any other manufacturer is making part bin specials and doing it well.
Q-Ball is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome