Dodged the 2020 bullet - Page 4 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
View Poll Results: Will you get a new 2020 when available?
No 70 64.22%
Yes as soon as I can. 18 16.51%
When I pay my current AT off. 6 5.50%
Undecided a bit to much $$$$ 15 13.76%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 05:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Motobiker View Post
My guess would be.. sooner or later. Shaft drive.
I thought that too, as an option on the AS, maybe, but I kinda doubt it. The stress levels on a bike that goes off tarmac is pretty high so that means a lot of weight and a lot of mechanical problems...

If necessity is the mother of inventions, then laziness is the baby daddy. A.A.
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post #32 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 06:02 AM
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I thought that too, as an option on the AS, maybe, but I kinda doubt it. The stress levels on a bike that goes off tarmac is pretty high so that means a lot of weight and a lot of mechanical problems...
I hate editing posts.. and thought I should.

what i see (as a possibility) is the range being split. top of the range going shaft. and aimed almost exclusively at (mostly) road users. with a standard range remaining chain drive, perhaps with a lighter, lower power option, the much mooted 850cc?

It has already been suggested that the 'Sports variant has become a more road oriented bike. which I think is possibly true, though i have already suggested that it has become a little more "dual purpose".

Honda have plenty of experience with shaft drive. And i would suggest the in-roads they have made into the GS market share has just whetted their appetite. And so it seems logical to me that at some point in the future a shaft driven bike is inevitable. You can read on any BMW forum that there is a lot of admiration for the CRF. Indeed, some forums have their own CRF sub-forum. Which gets a lot of attention. And the biggest complaint has always been the Chain. (It was for me.. as Ive had a GS since 1997)

An 1100+ Africa Twin Adventure Sports, with Shaft. Tubeless tyres. with a 300+ mile range. AND DCT. I would jump at that bike in a flash.

And so.. Im guessing, would a lot of other BMW owners. especially those who are tired of the constant worry when the extended warranty expires and cannot be renewed.
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30th anniversary DCT 'Sport.
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post #33 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Motobiker View Post
...
An 1100+ Africa Twin Adventure Sports, with Shaft. Tubeless tyres. with a 300+ mile range. AND DCT. I would jump at that bike in a flash....
Me, too. Without a doubt.

.
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post #34 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:06 AM
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I attended a seminar for current owners/first adopters last year and I have to say that Honda have delivered on pretty much every aspect of the discussions about updates/additions for a new model. One thing that came up early on was regarding a shaft drive model and it was pretty much dismissed by the engineers as an option for Africa Twin anytime soon. So I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
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post #35 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 02:35 PM
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That being said, as of yesterday I'm on the market for a set of 2020 ATAS wheels hehe!
The rear is not a direct swap

my garage: Honda cbr1000rr 04 - cbr1000rr sp 14 - cbr1000rr sp2 17 - cb1000r 15 - cb1000r+18 - vfr1200f 11 - cre500SM - Goldwing GL1800 2018 -ATAS DCT ES 20 - NC750X DCT 19_- BMW S1000r 18 - Suzuki gsx-s1000 16- gsx-s 1000 19-- gsxr 1000 k2-k5 - Yamaha mt10 16 - mt10 SP 17 - mt09SP 2018 - tracer 900 2017 - aprilia tuono 1100 factory- Zero SR 16 - Kawasaki H2 SXSE 19 - KTM SD 1290 GT 19 ,Few (12) gsx-r sacs 88/92
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post #36 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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The rear is not a direct swap
Crap!
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post #37 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Motobiker View Post
I hate editing posts.. and thought I should.

what i see (as a possibility) is the range being split. top of the range going shaft. and aimed almost exclusively at (mostly) road users. with a standard range remaining chain drive, perhaps with a lighter, lower power option, the much mooted 850cc?

It has already been suggested that the 'Sports variant has become a more road oriented bike. which I think is possibly true, though i have already suggested that it has become a little more "dual purpose".

Honda have plenty of experience with shaft drive. And i would suggest the in-roads they have made into the GS market share has just whetted their appetite. And so it seems logical to me that at some point in the future a shaft driven bike is inevitable. You can read on any BMW forum that there is a lot of admiration for the CRF. Indeed, some forums have their own CRF sub-forum. Which gets a lot of attention. And the biggest complaint has always been the Chain. (It was for me.. as Ive had a GS since 1997)

An 1100+ Africa Twin Adventure Sports, with Shaft. Tubeless tyres. with a 300+ mile range. AND DCT. I would jump at that bike in a flash.

And so.. Im guessing, would a lot of other BMW owners. especially those who are tired of the constant worry when the extended warranty expires and cannot be renewed.
I agree MAYBE in the future it might be an option, I would LOVE it see it happen. The smoothness of a shaft drive coupled with the DCT would be heaven. As soon as someone can overcome the shaft drives issues associated with off road use, I’m sure Honda will give it serious consideration. As for BMW’s, yes beautiful bikes but let’s face it (I hate to pigeon hole people but) they, as a whole, are not known for heavy off road riding. But, who can blame them small mishaps can end up in big bills and that bike does not handle the stress of heavy off-road use well. Yea, you can go catch some air on a GS and ride it hard down some gnarly single tracks but most likely at a point you’ll end up with a rear seal leak in that shaft, it’s almost inevitable. But this is, of course, just my opinion... Let’s put it this way; the short approach at the end of my drive way (between the street and sidewalk) is about 4ft. long and pretty steep, I used to use it as a “quick” wheelie ramp for my KLR, but the AT has the balls to easily make it a jump ramp. So usually the least a couple times a week (depending on where my truck is parked) I am obliged to launch into my driveway 99% of the tome I don’t even touch the sidewalk. Point being (other than the fun aspect) I don’t even give it a thought on my ATAS
BUT I’m sure if I owned a GS and shaft drive, landing on concrete (even these little 1-2ft high) jumps would not even be a consideration (at least not in my book)..
BTW if you are wondering; no my driveway is not super long and and I do have to do some decent braking before I kiss my fence to my backyard but that just one more fun aspect to doing it

If necessity is the mother of inventions, then laziness is the baby daddy. A.A.

Last edited by AT-Dragon; 09-28-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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post #38 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 08:15 AM
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i agree maybe in the future it might be an option, i would love it see it happen. The smoothness of a shaft drive coupled with the dct would be heaven. As soon as someone can overcome the shaft drives issues associated with off road use, im sure honda will give it serious consideration. As for bmws, yes beautiful bikes but lets face it (i hate to pigeon hole people but) they, as a whole, are not known for heavy off road riding. But, who can blame them small mishaps can end up in big bills and that bike does not handle the stress of heavy off-road use well. Yea, you can go catch some air on a gs and ride it hard down some gnarly single tracks but most likely at a point youll end up with a rear seal leak in that shaft, its almost inevitable. But this is, of course, just my opinion... Lets put it this way; the short approach at the end of my drive way (between the street and sidewalk) is about 4ft. Long and pretty steep, i used to use it as a quick wheelie ramp for my klr, but the at has the balls to easily make it a jump ramp. So usually the least a couple times a week (depending on where my truck is parked) i am obliged to launch into my driveway 99% of the tome i dont even touch the sidewalk. Point being (other than the fun aspect) i dont even give it a thought on my atas
but im sure if i owned a gs and shaft drive, landing on concrete (even these little 1-2ft high) jumps would not even be a consideration (at least not in my book)..
Btw if you are wondering; no my driveway is not super long and and i do have to do some decent braking before i kiss my fence to my backyard but that just one more fun aspect to doing it
Quote:
..with Shaft. Tubeless tyres. with a 300+ mile range. AND DCT
vfr1200x? Didn't sell much at all.

Quote:
2016 CRF1000LD, '15 NC700XD, '14 CTX700ND
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post #39 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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vfr1200x? Didn't sell much at all.
It’s a Street bike playing dress up, I mean, come on, yea I COULD take a Harley ultra classic around a motocross track but, really ? VRF1200X off-road !?!?!? More like MAYBE dirt road.
I think the “cross’ in crosstour is more like a cross to,a vampire but saying stay away from dirt go touring...

If necessity is the mother of inventions, then laziness is the baby daddy. A.A.

Last edited by AT-Dragon; 09-28-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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post #40 of 152 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:48 PM
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Well since my AT is now at 34'000 clicks, my AT's resale value is now getting awfull and to be able to travel correctly and comfy here's all I needed to do to this 2017 standard, so then even with all the upgrade on the 2020, I think most upgrades won't transfer and other than the springs I guess, all upgrades will still be needed, because I don't see the basic model quality changing much.

- Upgraded springs, because I get 40Kg on travel
- Crash bars, because radiator too dangerously damageable
- Auxiliary lights, not to be missed in the fog and night
- Better saddle, for these 10 drives
- Injection module/exhaust, to smoothen choppy feel down low
- Rox risers, because my arms are so long my back arched back
- Tubeless rims, because I just can't change a front tube in the middle of nowhere
- Stainless braided brake lines, solve squishy brakes but couldn't install because of swiss laws...

On one side it's annoying to have put so much money on it and see now, it's Worth one third what I paid which tells me it's time to go with a motorcycle that actually gives me all I need and not put some 3K$ on a motorcyle, but on the other hand my AT now only after 3 intense years of use, has most plastics looking like ****, most screws are getting rusty, spokes like some other parts are corroded, the central stand underside is also now pretty rusty, while my 2014 Yamaha still looks great.
The Honda lately gave me a lot of false neutrals between 5-6th, almost creating a crash on a highway, when cold the engine cuts same as traction control does, which I find more and more dangerous and lastly the engine has totally shut down multiple times, after blipping the throtlle in the middle of the street, showing the oil light but oil is fine, the mecanic told me the end of fork tubes also start corroding...

So after 1 Kawasaki and 3 Yamahas, that never showed any issues much less such rusting, corroding and plastics looking so bad, I must say I won't buy another Honda, it was overly reliable but I am still pretty disappointed now, I don't want to try the 2020 and realise all these "esthetic" issues are still there, or more issues need to be worked on within the first years of the model, because most of the hardware must be the same they didn't reinvent everything.

As I totally overblew my off-road needs, I eventually didn't ride dirt much, just some mountain roads sometimes and winter being pretty cold in Switzerland I will not want another 21" Wheel, I had too many oh **** moments. So that's why I decided to check 3 bikes, Guzzi V85, V strom 1000, Tiger 800 and eventually was blown away by the tiger, all the updates I did on my AT are stock on a XRT, plus cruise control, the saddle (heating) even is much comfier to me, it's Fucking lighter and I don't find much less powerfull, they even offer the whole aluminum luggage touratech kit...
So I am going to make the switch to Triumph and from my talk with the dealership, the services will even be cheaper, especially that the valve check is later, it's a shame Honda ****** up it's quality so much, my AT parked next to the Triumph really looked sad…

Loved my AT a long long time with many travels, I custommized it so much more than any bike before, it's not really bad, but I don't realy trust Honda's quality anymore and I'm sad to be saying this, the Tiger is tried and true through the years, I think I won't have much issues.

Yamaha XJ6 : the one who started it all (sold)
Kawasaki Versys 650 : 1st trail and sportbike predator (sold after accident)
Yamaha FZ8 : sexiest of them all (sold )
Yamaha MT-09 : waking the hooligan in me (sold not to die...)
Africa Twin : taming the hooligan slightly
Fazer 8 : the every day jack of all tades

Last edited by Djairouks; 09-28-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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