Creeping DCT - Page 4 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
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post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mike5100 View Post
Hmmm ... my new 2018 model DCT has 'creep'. It definitely doesn't go away after applying the brake. Idle speed is OK at 1400rpm, and the forward pressure is not great - I doubt that it would get up to 7mph if I just let it roll but it's definitely different from my last bike (2017 dct).

I'm considering leaving it like this though. This bike feels smoother than my last one through heavy traffic - maybe because it's not completely disengaging the drive at low rpm?

Mike
Idle should be 1000 to 1200 rpm, 1400 is way too high.

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post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:14 PM
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Correct- the rpm at idle should be 1200 +/- 100
But people count the number of bars on the dash.
Normally we see seven bars lit up; as 7 x 200 = 1400
The wrong assumption is that each bar indicates 200 rpms.
They don't.

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2016 CRF1000LD, '15 NC700XD, '14 CTX700ND
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post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:18 PM
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"Clutch Initialize Learning Procedure" as Honda calls "DCT reset" talked about here
does not complete successfully if the engine is not warmed up.
So it either completes successfully or not; there is no middle ground, AFAIK.

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Before starting this procedure, check the following:
– PGM-FI system and DCT system have no DTC.
– Engine idle speed is normal.
– Transmission is in neutral and cooling fan stops.
• Do not operate the throttle during clutch initialize
learning
1. Warm up the engine to the normal operating
temperature (engine oil temperature:
50 – 110°C/122 – 230°F) and stop it.

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2016 CRF1000LD, '15 NC700XD, '14 CTX700ND

Last edited by DCTFAN; 04-13-2019 at 08:25 PM.
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post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mike5100 View Post
Hmmm ... my new 2018 model DCT has 'creep'. It definitely doesn't go away after applying the brake. Idle speed is OK at 1400rpm, and the forward pressure is not great - I doubt that it would get up to 7mph if I just let it roll but it's definitely different from my last bike (2017 dct).
I'm considering leaving it like this though. This bike feels smoother than my last one through heavy traffic - maybe because it's not completely disengaging the drive at low rpm?
Mike
This is the best way to check proper Clutch engagement:
1. lift the rear wheel off the ground (easy with centerstand)
2. start engine and push 'D' (side stand up)
3. the rear wheel will start spinning
4. apply rear brake until wheel stops rotation
Once the engine has warmed up, the wheel should not rotate
without a bit of throttle or pushed by hand.
The reason the rear wheel initially rotates is the cold engine oil viscosity causes fluid friction.
At higher temps the fuid drag is not strong enough to turn the wheel.

All the reports of "creeping" (moving 530 lbs +rider) is a serious issue and should be corrected, IMO

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2016 CRF1000LD, '15 NC700XD, '14 CTX700ND
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post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DCTFAN View Post
Correct- the rpm at idle should be 1200 +/- 100
But people count the number of bars on the dash.
Normally we see seven bars lit up; as 7 x 200 = 1400
The wrong assumption is that each bar indicates 200 rpms.
They don't.
So how can you tell what it really is (without a computer)?
BTW I think most people would be looking at the 1000rpm mark and seeing that the idle is then two out of five graduations beyond that point.
Mike
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post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DCTFAN View Post
This is the best way to check proper Clutch engagement:
1. lift the rear wheel off the ground (easy with centerstand)
2. start engine and push 'D' (side stand up)
3. the rear wheel will start spinning
4. apply rear brake until wheel stops rotation
Once the engine has warmed up, the wheel should not rotate
without a bit of throttle or pushed by hand.
The reason the rear wheel initially rotates is the cold engine oil viscosity causes fluid friction.
At higher temps the fuid drag is not strong enough to turn the wheel.

All the reports of "creeping" (moving 530 lbs +rider) is a serious issue and should be corrected, IMO
That's an interesting idea, and I will try it. I wonder though whether on the manual bike you would get no movement of the rear wheel with the clutch held in and 1st gear engaged.
Mike
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post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DCTFAN View Post
"Clutch Initialize Learning Procedure" as Honda calls "DCT reset" talked about here
does not complete successfully if the engine is not warmed up.
So it either completes successfully or not; there is no middle ground, AFAIK.
Yes you are right - if it wasn't up to temperature they would not have been able to do this reset.
If you look at DCTfan's post above (#33) there's a quoted procedure which hasn't copied across into my post here, but it differs from the version of the DCT reset published in other threads. The printout I have, supposedly from the workshop manual, makes no mention of the throttle. IIRC the workshop manual was for the 2016 bike and it may be different in the 2018 bike.
Mike
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post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 03:44 AM
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[QUOTE=mike5100;301851]That's an interesting idea, and I will try it. I wonder though whether on the manual bike you would get no movement of the rear wheel with the clutch held in and 1st gear engaged.
Mike[/QUOTE


My manual doesn't creep when 1st gear is engaged when I'm sat on it but will rotate the rear wheel when on the centre stand and with no resistance to impede it.
Some of the bikes I've owned will rotate the rear with the engine running and no gears engaged as I'm sure many others on here have seen.
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post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5100 View Post
Yes you are right - if it wasn't up to temperature they would not have been able to do this reset.
If you look at DCTfan's post above (#33) there's a quoted procedure which hasn't copied across into my post here, but it differs from the version of the DCT reset published in other threads. The printout I have, supposedly from the workshop manual, makes no mention of the throttle. IIRC the workshop manual was for the 2016 bike and it may be different in the 2018 bike.
Mike
Your're probably right, as the TBW system in the 2018 model needs
to be programmed differently.

Quote:
2016 CRF1000LD, '15 NC700XD, '14 CTX700ND
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post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 08:47 AM
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I've never seen a bike with a wet clutch and a cold engine NOT turn an off-ground rear wheel in neutral or in gear with the clutch in.
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