Tubeless wheels - Page 12 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
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post #111 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 08:48 AM
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You can do it! 8^) Saw a YouTube video once where the guy was in India and had a flat, had no tools, and some random Indian "mechanic" patched the tube without taking the wheel off the bike.
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post #112 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 08:19 PM
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Here is the point you need to consider: People tell you that the extra hump on the tubeless rims (and the rear AT rim) will retain the tire bead in the event of a flat. And that’s all well and good.

But tell me this: what retains a tube type tire on the ridgeless rim (for safety sake) when you get a flat? Because evidence shows that tubes get flats more often than tubeless does, and when a tube gets a flat it typically loses air faster than a tubeless puncture. So, what prevents a tube type tire from coming off the rim catastrophically?

The clear answer is, nothing. And if nothing i# keeping it on there with a vulnerable tube inside, why be concerned that nothing is keeping the tubeless tire bead seated. You are no worse off fir it, and maybe better off since tubeless punctures tend to be slower deflating.

Would it be better to have the extra ridge? Probably so. But is it imperative? Not so much.
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post #113 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 02:32 AM
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What keeps the tire of a tubed tire from coming off the rim in the case of a leak? Well, from what I understand, a stiff sidewall and the air pressure inside the tube. Can it be run to 0 psi? Definitely not. Neither can a tubeless tire. I don't believe that a tubed style rim necessarily means the lack of a hump. Is nothing keeping the tire bead of a tubed or tubeless tire seated against the rim? No. In both cases air pressure holds it there until it falls sufficiently. This amount will depend on several factors including the nature of the puncture,specific tire used, speed and total weight of the bike (including rider, accessories and cargo). As you said, having the hump is not imperative.
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post #114 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirky1298 View Post
I've also ordered a tyre pressure monitoring system just to keep an eye on the pressures.
Smart move!!!
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post #115 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 03:31 PM
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Hi guys and gals, new to this site and just wanted to say thanks for all the info regarding tublis tires. Man, kind of confusing but considering going with the Outex system. I called NUETECH since I have their system on my dirt bike but the rims on the AT are too wide for their NUETECH system. Also thinking of just using the stock front rim and hoping that when I'm in the dirt with 18 psi I won't have a problem with the front bead. Any and all thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks again.
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post #116 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 1 Wheel Drive View Post
Here is the point you need to consider: People tell you that the extra hump on the tubeless rims (and the rear AT rim) will retain the tire bead in the event of a flat. And that’s all well and good.

But tell me this: what retains a tube type tire on the ridgeless rim (for safety sake) when you get a flat? Because evidence shows that tubes get flats more often than tubeless does, and when a tube gets a flat it typically loses air faster than a tubeless puncture. So, what prevents a tube type tire from coming off the rim catastrophically?

The clear answer is, nothing. And if nothing i# keeping it on there with a vulnerable tube inside, why be concerned that nothing is keeping the tubeless tire bead seated. You are no worse off fir it, and maybe better off since tubeless punctures tend to be slower deflating.
If your goal in your tubeless conversion is slower deflation upon puncture, that's great.

But if your goal is plug and inflate roadside repair, you likely won't get that when the bead seal breaks. In which case you may find yourself removing the valve stem and installing a tube by the side of the trail. In which case it might have been simpler to patch a tube that was already in the tire--with luck and skill you might not need to remove the wheel at all for that.

From my perspective if the tubeless conversion doesn't yield easier flat repair it's not worth it.

Also it seemed to me when I compared the tubeless tire with and without a tube, that having a strip of deflated tube in the rim gives some added margin of safety for retaining the tire in the event of a flat. I'm not planning to test that theory or try to prove it to anyone. Compare for yourself and make your own judgement if you're interested, and you haven't already.

The tubeless tire I compared was a looser fit than the OEM tube type tire. Maybe I would have seen things differently with a tighter fitting tire.
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post #117 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 03:36 PM
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Since the AT rear rim has the “safety” ridges, but the front clearly does not, it may be that the best course here is a hybrid setup of a tube in the front and tubeless in the back. Experience shows the rear is far more likely to get a puncture from a nail or other sharp object. Tubeless rear allows a roadside plug repair in the back. The rear also tends to wear out about twice as fast as the front, so it being tubeless makes the tire swaps less of a pain. The main mechanism of flats in the front seem to be pinch flats after airing down. But in my experience, the front doesn’t benefit as much as the rear from lower pressure, so to avoid those pinch flats don’t air down, or not too much.

I still plan on going tubeless front and rear. Just thinking out loud here in possible compromises...

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post #118 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 06:00 PM
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Been on the planet a fair while now and riding since 13yrs of age, 65 in February, had my share of punctures on tubed and tubeless and can assure you a puncture at speed when lent over on tubed generally puts you on your arris, the tyre deflates in an instant and rolls of the rim a moment, front let go on an XS650 and had me surfing tarmac before I could react.
On tubeless the handling deteriorates but gives you time to realise a problem generally.
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post #119 of 121 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 12:35 PM
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In this case would it be possible to seal the wheels with tape or silicon and still use the tube so in case of puncture the tyre doesn't deflate quick and allows you to control the bike or even ride back home. But what about the valve of the tube? how do you seal that through the hole in the wheel? An O-ring and a tight nut on the outside?

Last edited by Miscel76; 07-04-2019 at 01:15 PM.
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post #120 of 121 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 03:37 PM
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In this case would it be possible to seal the wheels with tape or silicon and still use the tube so in case of puncture the tyre doesn't deflate quick and allows you to control the bike or even ride back home. But what about the valve of the tube? how do you seal that through the hole in the wheel? An O-ring and a tight nut on the outside?
This is basically what I did. Full tubeless conversion using the 3M tape and silicone on the back. I also put the tape and silicone on the front, to block the air holes in the spokes, but I still run a tube in there. The front tube has an inner nut and an outer nut. I put some silicone under the outer nut and a bit in the valve gap so even if the front does puncture it will be very slow, or a slow as a tubless in any case. If it's a screw that is bedded into the tire well, I might not even notice. For that reason I have a SPY TPMS to keep an eye on things. An O ring might also work but with time and the weather might deteriorate quicker than silicone, especially if it is getting squished. I've seen online in the US some "push in" valves, that you can push into the rim from the outside. Might get one when I can so that even if the tube valve fails, I can maybe plus, re-inflate, and get home at least.

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