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AT suspension setup for heavy riders

67K views 99 replies 49 participants last post by  Gerard Hammond 
#1 · (Edited)
After 5 weeks of daily tweaking, I have managed to have a working suspension setup with stock springs and shock. I would like to share this information for us fatties out there! I experienced high speed wobbles, had to constantly correct myself in corners and had a lot of bumby front situations at lower speeds. Honda aimed the suspension for 75 kg / 165 lbs / 12 st riders. Unfortunately, I am 108 kg / 238 lbs / 17 st.

My setup:
- FRONT preload: 8 turns, starting from full SOFT.
- FRONT compression damping: 2 clicks from full TIGHT.
- FRONT rebound: 2 and a half turn from full TIGHT.

- REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click.
- REAR compression damping: stock settings (14 clicks from MAX).
- REAR rebound: stock settings (11 clicks from MAX).

Testing situation:
- Both my Tusk panniers, weighing 8 kg / 17 lbs total, have been removed.
- I have equipped a front crash bar of around 6 kg / 13 lbs
- Did a constant 160 kmph / 100 mph for about 20 km / 13 mi on the highway with a few fairly sharp exit lanes.
- I intentionally pushed against the handlebars to the left and to the right on the highway and I'm satisfied the gyroscopic effect corrects my path and keeps me in a straight line without the handlebars feeling twitchy or 'light feathered'.
- Did 50 kmph / 30 mph within city boundries, all on tarmac, both new and old pavement with tar snakes and speed bumps.
- I have done a couple of full turns on a roundabout and ONLY noticed a slight oversteer in the back when I had to correct my speed and lean angle a bit while taking the long turning circle.
- Road surface was wet. I can happily say I was really confident on cornering the bike hard for the first time since I owned it.
- My AT runs on Dunlop Trailsmart Max, front 2.0 bar and back 2.6 bar.

I really hope this information will help you sort out any discomfort or trouble you are experiencing with your AT. The rear shock is simply not build for our weight. I'm convinced that if you apply these settings, you will regain control and a good level of comfort!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
First off LOL if you think 238# is fat you gotta meet me I range between 260-270 lbs but that aside thank you very much for the info.. I’ve been seriously procrastinating on messing with and getting the proper set up in the suspension and this is a godsend or at the very least a sign for me to finally fix that issue.

GREAT POST!! Actually this would be a great start for us to post more of the setups and variables and setting used for OEM suspensions. Even if the rider is not the exact same weight and height it as least a great staring point and can be more easily tweaked from there...
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you need heavy springs I think you should just bite the bullet and get the correct ones, the stock suspension can be resprung and valved to make it a very good handling bike. The stock valving is not capable of controlling the existing springs so if you do upgrade them you will need that work done anyway. there is heaps of stuff that can help out on the web https://www.teknikmotorsport.com/assets/brochures/Road_Setup_Guide.pdf Teknik Motorsport Offroad & Trail Bike Suspension Setup & Tuning Guide
 
#5 ·
If you need heavy springs I think you should just bite the bullet and get the correct ones, the stock suspension can be resprung and valved to make it a very good handling bike. The stock valving is not capable of controlling the existing springs so if you do upgrade them you will need that work done anyway. there is heaps of stuff that can help out on the web https://www.teknikmotorsport.com/assets/brochures/Road_Setup_Guide.pdf https://www.teknikmotorsport.com/Offroad-MX-Enduro-SX-Motorcycle-Suspension-Tuning
Thanks for the link, I agree that if you really want it done properly, you should revalve it. Although, if anyone is happy with these settings, like me, you can save quit a lot of money.
 
#7 ·
Glad you found a setting that works great for you! What I also noticed, was initially with the OEM tires, I had to fight the bike in the curves, it would have a tendency to go wide. When I changed the tires for Shinkos 804/805, it completely transformed the bike, the bike now falls into corners effortlessly. Insane the difference a tire can make.
 
#9 ·
Absolutely, I disliked my stock Aveon tyres. They were used for 11k kilometres and were cupped and squared. I was in a German mountain range for a weekend thinking I could get some last milage out of them before changing them having some thread left.

Out of nowhere we noticed that the rear tyre showed extreme wear randomly around the tyre, my center thread was gone and my carcass started to show at one spot. For some reason my insurance and my motorcycle road side service couldn't help because all shops were closing and I crossed a border. So we had to ride 350km back into The Netherlands over the Autobahn with no more than 90 - 100 kmph, sticking behind trucks while those crazy BMW's passed us at 200+ kmph. The most tense ride I ever did!
 

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#10 ·
I’m about the same size as the OP. Fooling with the stock settings made the ride “better” but the biggest problem IMO is the preload or lack of. There was no way I was only using 30% of the travel in the rear. More like 50% even with the preload all the way stiff

The problem when you don’t have proper preload especially in the rear is that it unweights the front. With a light front end it will drift, shimmy, and feel unstable. You need to get that weight ‘even”. I bought the correct weight spring from Cogent Dynamics and what a difference. The bike absorbs bumps better, it corners better and is more stable. I can also attain the correct preload for the rear of the bike even loaded. The spring was only. 150ish

The front swings are next. Suspension is always the first thing I invest in no matter what motorcycle I own or buy. It makes the biggest difference in how the bike feels.

I’m not saying don’t mess the suspension to get the stock set up better, but the right springs goes along way..

BTW, i ride 50/50 so YMMV
 
#11 ·
The problem when you don’t have proper preload especially in the rear is that it unweights the front. With a light front end it will drift, shimmy, and feel unstable. You need to get that weight ‘even”. I bought the correct weight spring from Cogent Dynamics and what a difference. The bike absorbs bumps better, it corners better and is more stable. I can also attain the correct preload for the rear of the bike even loaded. The spring was only. 150ish
You only changed the spring and didn't touch the valving?
 
#15 ·
Well I just want to thank ronbosgra for this post .

I have been struggling with the setup on my AT and thought I had got it to where I can live with it.
So after reading the original post I decided what the **** I've got the time let's try this.

WoW all I can say !!!

The bike is a different animal very much better behaved and more comfortable too.
I'm also still riding the original Dunlop's but plan to change to tourance next in the new year.

My bike was bouncy and felt unstable over anything that was not flat , even at speeds of 60 -70mph it had a slight front wobble I thought it the tyre .
I do have a different rear spring ( hyperpro ) but the rest is as described in the op.

Today's ride out to test speedohealer was a pure pleasure .

Road surface I would normally try to avoid I just rode on bumps potholes manhole covers cracks in tarmac all taken in stride and with speed and confidence.

Very very Happy .

Thanks for your advice on this setup.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Update:

I bit the bullet and purchased the Hyperpro Kit front & back +20mm springs after a near collision this week. I still tweaked the suspensions a little and I must say; LESS compression damping and MORE rebound worked fairly well for some reason...

We still suffer from an underweight front and boy did I find out. I lost traction when accelerating to overtake a truck (I nearly rear ended it) and it got me so angry at the bike that I phoned Hyperpro when I arrived at work and explained everything (I'm Dutch and they are a well known Dutch suspension company). They are fully aware of the AT's suspension problem. They told me that after I install their products, I can come by the workshop and their mechanics will check and tweak my settings if needed, free of charge.

...DEAL!

I do want to highlight that the settings I posted here really do make the bike far more manageable for me than stock settings, but the front end is and will always stay underweight (thus less traction) because the back get's compressed to much.

my costs:
* €108,- Hyperpro Back spring (black).
* €170,- Hyperpro Front forks.
* €65,- Upside Down fork tool.
* €49,- Motorcycle spring compress tool.
* €15,- new fork seals.
* Fork oil is included in the Hyperpro kit.

I was told not to purchase the Heavy Duty version. That version is meant for serious globetrotters and heavy equipped police motorcycles.

All in all I spend around €420,-, something I tried to avoid by tweaking the stock settings. But hey, I found out first hand that you can't fight the laws of physics...

The kit comes with a complete and professional instructions manual. I'll also be following YouTube video's because I prefer seeing it too, since I never dismantled an upside-down fork before (only 'normal' ones). I'll be working on the bike this weekend, if my spring compression tool arrives on time...

I will give an update in this thread for anyone who's interested.
 

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#95 ·
Update:

I bit the bullet and purchased the Hyperpro Kit front & back +20mm springs after a near collision this week. I still tweaked the suspensions a little and I must say; LESS compression damping and MORE rebound worked fairly well for some reason...

We still suffer from an underweight front and boy did I find out. I lost traction when accelerating to overtake a truck (I nearly rear ended it) and it got me so angry at the bike that I phoned Hyperpro when I arrived at work and explained everything (I'm Dutch and they are a well known Dutch suspension company). They are fully aware of the AT's suspension problem. They told me that after I install their products, I can come by the workshop and their mechanics will check and tweak my settings if needed, free of charge.

...DEAL!

I do want to highlight that the settings I posted here really do make the bike far more manageable for me than stock settings, but the front end is and will always stay underweight (thus less traction) because the back get's compressed to much.

my costs:
  • €108,- Hyperpro Back spring (black).
  • €170,- Hyperpro Front forks.
  • €65,- Upside Down fork tool.
  • €49,- Motorcycle spring compress tool.
  • €15,- new fork seals.
  • Fork oil is included in the Hyperpro kit.

I was told not to purchase the Heavy Duty version. That version is meant for serious globetrotters and heavy equipped police motorcycles.

All in all I spend around €420,-, something I tried to avoid by tweaking the stock settings. But hey, I found out first hand that you can't fight the laws of physics...

The kit comes with a complete and professional instructions manual. I'll also be following YouTube video's because I prefer seeing it too, since I never dismantled an upside-down fork before (only 'normal' ones). I'll be working on the bike this weekend, if my spring compression tool arrives on time...

I will give an update in this thread for anyone who's interested.
Hi, I was wondering what Compression, Rebound settings you finally set-up on the front ? I see HyperPro recommend 5 clicks from Max for Compression which seems to be too hard...thanks
 
#20 ·
I found that the forks are far better since I changed the settings , no more brake dive , and much more feel and control.
I probably will upgrade the springs at some point but just now they suit my riding , road only , and I got the heavy duty spring for two up touring ?
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
UPDATE II:

I installed the Hyperpro front suspension springs yesterday and I just did the rear shock and immediately took it out for a spin...

WOW!!! What a difference! The bike feels tight and buffed up! While riding I still notice that every road surface imperfections are transferred to the handlebars which I really hoped for to disappear, but it doesn't bring me out of balance any more amidst corners. I did a couple of full turns on a small roundabout for the fun and man, the AT feels secure, and I finally feel confident to push the bike further downwards instead of correcting my line after every surface irregularity I hit. I even (unwillingly) did my first full jump with the bike over a small but very steep bridge without bottoming out. YES!!

I have used the preload/compression/rebound settings provided by Hyperpro's manual but I will take the bike to their workshop anyway since it's a free service. They might be able to fine-tune it beyond my knowledge. But for now, no more saggy, sh*tty cornering, front wheel wobbling rides for me!

Front suspension video tutorial:


Rear shock:


(PS: check out my sick DIY fork seal driver) Auto part Pipe Fishing rod Metal
 

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#23 · (Edited)
[Before you tinker away on your AT: If you are bothered with saggy/sloppy springs, get the HYPERPRO UPGRADE. They are the best price/quality upgrade I ever bought! It makes the bike handle firm and confident in corners, while braking and the general feel is much better. If you can't or don't want to, try out my settings]

Hey there, I can't see or measure your sag level, but you should give my settings a try, which I wrote down in my first opening message. Write down your current settings first. You're about 15kg lighter than me, so you probably have to turn your rear preload a click or two anticlockwise (2 clicks = 2mm/20kg less preload If I remember the manual correctly). Your front most likely about half a turn anticlockwise. This is all depending on your sag. Lubricate the sh*t out of your rear preload thread with wd40 to make it turn easily. Make sure you try to spray inside the thread housing, thats where it's usually stuck/rusty.

I haven't visited Hyperpro like I said before. I have been out of the running due to pneumonia for 1½ week now and a garage door build project which is now all grinded to a halt. I'm going to take a week off from work in November, so I'll be visiting Hyperpro then and hopefully can post more tips about our AT suspension settings (I'll be interrogating those mechanics up until the point I'll be asked to get the heck out of their workshop.)

***I would like to add to this thread that while I was replacing my springs, I forgot to lubricate my fork seals. I read that stiction is usually caused by dry fork seals which prevents the fork to properly slide up and down and can cause a bouncing effect during slower speeds. I sold a pair of auxiliary lights to a guy who just got back from Marocco on his rally red AT and he was unfamiliar with this bouncing effect, so my guess is indeed the dry fork seals (and not some AT factory build problem). If this is not the case, I'll blame my weight 'cause he was around 75kg heavy where I am 110kg light /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif***
 
#24 ·
Hi
You suggest - REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click. Isn't spring preload increased by turning the knob clockwise to the max (around 35 clicks) rather than anti-clockwise? I'm about 215 pounds and even with spring preload maxed out (clockwise) sag is still at about 40%. Thanks!
 
#29 ·
Thanks ronbosgra for your post. I think your settings are fantastic, specifically for the road. Can you suggest any changes for offroad? I assume the settings should be a bit softer. I rode today for three hours on and off road with your settings and it was a drastic improvement over the stock settings. Has anyone written a novice guide to suspension settings? And if not, I think it would be great if you started one. For example, I had to estimate "clicks" on some adjusters that don't really click.
 
#30 ·
I tried every adjustment with the stock gear and quickly realized,that like every bike I have owned,the stock suspension sucks! I have tried modifying spring/revalving stock shocks.Problem is it's putting "lipstick on a pig" ! Suspension has come a long ways in the last 50 yrs.,but for the serious rider,proper spring/dampening rates for your weight and riding habits will save your ass,a lot more then a loud pipe!
I put an Ohlins shock with 10.2kg spring and the stiffest Racetech front Springs they make (?kg). I can now load it to the gun wells make a few clicks and bomb down a knarly 2 track,instead of getting tossed around like a crash test dummie.
Spend the money! It will save your ASS🙄
 
#31 ·
Coming from a 1200 XE I dont think the suspensions on the AT are bad (hated the XE suspensions, mostly the Ohlins, they somehow managed to make them soft and harsh at the same time). Obviously heavy rider will find its limits sooner than others on the AT, but with that said, considering how most of these bikes are used (touring, gravel roads, dirt roads) a super stiff suspension just punishes you unnecessarily 95% of the time, for the 5% of time you need it. If I spent most of my time in knarly very technical terrain there's probably 5 other bikes I would choose before the AT and all of them would be at least 100lbs lighter :)
 
#35 ·
I keep repeating myself. Has any 1 owned a moto before?
Confusion leads to chaos,then self destruction.
Sorry,yer mate ways 450#s. Not me falt. Learned the most,by listening. Of which,is lost!
I have after 50yrs. Learned through observation and observance,it's inevitable!
Turn the screen off,go ride yer moto,thumbs.
Cheesd and rice? Bettin no 1 getting snacks? Power on Girls.
How to stifle original thought? Congrats.
 
#36 ·
I keep repeating myself. Has any 1 owned a moto before?
Confusion leads to chaos,then self destruction.
Sorry,yer mate ways 450#s. Not me falt. Learned the most,by listening. Of which,is lost!
I have after 50yrs. Learned through observation and observance,it's inevitable!
Turn the screen off,go ride yer moto,thumbs.
Cheesd and rice? Bettin no 1 getting snacks? Power on Girls.
How to stifle original thought? Congrats.
When I was actively flying the safety letter than was sent by Transport Canada to all licensed pilots had a neat sentence at the top of the front page. "Learn from the mistakes of others, you'll not live long enough to make them all yourself." We all have different experiences and backgrounds. The usual transfer of ideas may be from more experienced to less experienced. Other times it is the other direction as a less experienced person encounters and resolves an issue the rest of us have not encountered. Sometimes multiple posts on an issue may lead to a resolution that none of us individually may have thought of. It is part of what makes this interesting. We all ride ATs of one description or another. Hoping for unrestricted riding in the near future for all of us.
 
#37 ·
After 5 weeks of daily tweaking, I have managed to have a working suspension setup with stock springs and shock. I would like to share this information for us fatties out there! I experienced high speed wobbles, had to constantly correct myself in corners and had a lot of bumby front situations at lower speeds. Honda aimed the suspension for 75 kg / 165 lbs / 12 st riders. Unfortunately, I am 108 kg / 238 lbs / 17 st.

My setup:
  • FRONT preload: 8 turns, starting from full SOFT.
  • FRONT compression damping: 2 clicks from full TIGHT.
  • FRONT rebound: 2 and a half turn from full TIGHT.

  • REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click.
  • REAR compression damping: stock settings (14 clicks from MAX).
  • REAR rebound: stock settings (11 clicks from MAX).

Testing situation:
  • Both my Tusk panniers, weighing 8 kg / 17 lbs total, have been removed.
  • I have equipped a front crash bar of around 6 kg / 13 lbs
  • Did a constant 160 kmph / 100 mph for about 20 km / 13 mi on the highway with a few fairly sharp exit lanes.
  • I intentionally pushed against the handlebars to the left and to the right on the highway and I'm satisfied the gyroscopic effect corrects my path and keeps me in a straight line without the handlebars feeling twitchy or 'light feathered'.
  • Did 50 kmph / 30 mph within city boundries, all on tarmac, both new and old pavement with tar snakes and speed bumps.
  • I have done a couple of full turns on a roundabout and ONLY noticed a slight oversteer in the back when I had to correct my speed and lean angle a bit while taking the long turning circle.
  • Road surface was wet. I can happily say I was really confident on cornering the bike hard for the first time since I owned it.
  • My AT runs on Dunlop Trailsmart Max, front 2.0 bar and back 2.6 bar.

I really hope this information will help you sort out any discomfort or trouble you are experiencing with your AT. The rear shock is simply not build for our weight. I'm convinced that if you apply these settings, you will regain control and a good level of comfort!
Hi
Took your advice on the settings for a larger bloke and the bike has been transformed, especially at the front end when cornering and overtaking on a less than perfect road surface, thank you for the heads up 👌
 
#39 ·
After 5 weeks of daily tweaking, I have managed to have a working suspension setup with stock springs and shock. I would like to share this information for us fatties out there! I experienced high speed wobbles, had to constantly correct myself in corners and had a lot of bumby front situations at lower speeds. Honda aimed the suspension for 75 kg / 165 lbs / 12 st riders. Unfortunately, I am 108 kg / 238 lbs / 17 st.

My setup:
  • FRONT preload: 8 turns, starting from full SOFT.
  • FRONT compression damping: 2 clicks from full TIGHT.
  • FRONT rebound: 2 and a half turn from full TIGHT.

  • REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click.
  • REAR compression damping: stock settings (14 clicks from MAX).
  • REAR rebound: stock settings (11 clicks from MAX). ...
Per Motociclo over on ADV rider. Try fork rebound ¾ turn out from full hard and compression 4-clicks out from full hard.
You have the shock preload backwards. MAX preload is full clockwise ~32 clicks
 
#40 ·
Great post, thank you for the share.

I have one question, you told "REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click.", did you really set the rear preload to the minimum height or is this just a typo?


After 5 weeks of daily tweaking, I have managed to have a working suspension setup with stock springs and shock. I would like to share this information for us fatties out there! I experienced high speed wobbles, had to constantly correct myself in corners and had a lot of bumby front situations at lower speeds. Honda aimed the suspension for 75 kg / 165 lbs / 12 st riders. Unfortunately, I am 108 kg / 238 lbs / 17 st.

My setup:
  • FRONT preload: 8 turns, starting from full SOFT.
  • FRONT compression damping: 2 clicks from full TIGHT.
  • FRONT rebound: 2 and a half turn from full TIGHT.

  • REAR preload: Maxed out, turned anti-clockwise untill you hear the first click.
  • REAR compression damping: stock settings (14 clicks from MAX).
  • REAR rebound: stock settings (11 clicks from MAX).

Testing situation:
  • Both my Tusk panniers, weighing 8 kg / 17 lbs total, have been removed.
  • I have equipped a front crash bar of around 6 kg / 13 lbs
  • Did a constant 160 kmph / 100 mph for about 20 km / 13 mi on the highway with a few fairly sharp exit lanes.
  • I intentionally pushed against the handlebars to the left and to the right on the highway and I'm satisfied the gyroscopic effect corrects my path and keeps me in a straight line without the handlebars feeling twitchy or 'light feathered'.
  • Did 50 kmph / 30 mph within city boundries, all on tarmac, both new and old pavement with tar snakes and speed bumps.
  • I have done a couple of full turns on a roundabout and ONLY noticed a slight oversteer in the back when I had to correct my speed and lean angle a bit while taking the long turning circle.
  • Road surface was wet. I can happily say I was really confident on cornering the bike hard for the first time since I owned it.
  • My AT runs on Dunlop Trailsmart Max, front 2.0 bar and back 2.6 bar.

I really hope this information will help you sort out any discomfort or trouble you are experiencing with your AT. The rear shock is simply not build for our weight. I'm convinced that if you apply these settings, you will regain control and a good level of comfort!
 
#43 ·
I just changed the rear spring on my 2018 ATAS with this K-Tech Suspension Rear Shock Spring , the 95 NM spring.
I weigh 210 lbs and before I installed this I could not get 30% sag even with spring preload adjusted to max. Now I have 30% sag with preload adjusted to full min. I adjusted compression and rebound to compensate and the ride now is firm but planted and feels good, with plenty of preload adjustment for loaded up and/or 2 up. I am glad I did not go for the stiffer rear spring rate that K-Tech recommended for my weight. The fork springs were pretty good for me from the beginning, but I adjusted them to match the rear but now am finding that I'm at max rebound, so I'll probably add thicker fork oil in the future to compensate. So far I've only tried this setup on the street (some of the roads are terrible around here) and am happy with the results.
55944
 
#44 ·
I am glad I did not go for the stiffer rear spring rate that K-Tech recommended for my weight.
I don't know why but many suspension shops like to overspring the heck out of suspensions...imagine you set the preload to the minimum...with a stiffer spring you'd be in very uncomfortable territory. I've brought multiple bikes to multiple shops, and even if you tell them you don't mind it to ride like a KLR or that it can handle like a 1978 Parisienne, they always want it to ride like a Ferrari without any consideration for comfort. Which is great when you're on a race track but terrible on bad roads.
 
#52 ·
Honda considers suspension a “Wear Item”.
Based on many posts, leaking seals will be covered. Heavy stiction maybe. Upper tube anodizing wear probably not.
Best to get your suspension sorted and enjoy the ride than worry about fork warranty.

A good suspension shop will put in better seals and wipers, check bushing fit in addition to installing correct springs for your weight with valving to match the springs and set proper oil level (springs in) so you won’t blow seals.
 
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