Gone Tubeless. Conti Trail Attack 3s on Kineo Rims. - Page 3 - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 03:59 PM
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There were a number of reasons I went the Rally Raid 19/17 route.
I prefer the much improved handling when getting it on. Roadside repairs are possible, the Bartubeless sealing system was fitted after the wheels were completed.
More and stronger stainless spokes, the originals had been swapped and they began discolouring again soon after.
Conti Trail Attac 2's fitted and after 1500+mls of use, there's been no loss of pressure and I haven't had to tighten any spokes so far.
Pretty much 100% road use so not worried about the offroad capability that may or may not have been lost.
I can't help but modify bikes as long as there is improvement to be had and this is a keeper for me, so I don't mind blowing the dough as I don't feel any need to be saving for a new bike.
The bike is far more predictable and confidence inspiring with this set up so I feel it's money well spent.
Tubeless on rims suited to that end was the aim the rest is a bonus that was expected from past experience so I'm a happy camper for now.
One regret, I didn't buy the Ohlins forks that were on sale here a while back, I bought the shock from him but at that time I was thinking about a KTM 200exc and was holding back pending a possible purchase.
More fool me, I've since put my old TY 250 R back in use to appease getting dirty again.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motobiker View Post
Ive never really thought much about bad handling of this bike. Its a radically different machine from my other bike and i expected from the start that it would take some adjusting to. But as it turns out this period of adjustment didn't last long and now, 5 months later, riding it is as natural as my other bike which I have been riding for 22 years. If i approach bends and so on in a different way then its already unconscious, not something I have to spend any time thinking about. And that is in stark contrast to another bike I owned for a period, A K1200GT a bike that demanded full time concentration and very particular road positioning to get round a tight bend. It was hard work riding that bike on anything but the fastest roads. Not so this Honda.
Exactly that's also why it always makes me wonder, I like you feel the Honda just takes fantastic trajectories without even placing it or second guessing,
it's so good when I tour with it I can concentrate on enjoying the views, so I'm skeptical about changing size !
I have 2 motorcycles and I can say even the not so difficult Fazer 8 from Yamaha, takes some placing and throwing the handlebars in turns, for it to handle
like the AT and I don't know that I feel the front more, or that it's just a perception thing because it's so much harder to counter steer and throw in turns.

My reasoning having read on rake and trail, is that this is what you mostly feel when changing to 19/17, because it roughly tilts the front suspension reducing
the rake angle and trail as well. Your story about the K1200GT goes in the same direction, it's rake angle is 29.4°, while the stock AT is 27.5°, for comparison
in the segment the KTM 1290 is 24.9°, the BMW R1200GS is 24.5°, the Ducati Multistrada is 25° and the Suzuki V-strom is 25°, now lower the AT by 2" font
and 1" back I'm sure you're much closer to 25° now (btw Fazer 8 is 25°).
Not saying the lighter and smaller rims don't impact gyroscopic force, but I'm not so sure the 10% radius change against the tube weight removal is what
influences most the handling.



It would be interesting, if someone tried putting the front forks about 3cm higher in the clamps, or lower preload to rougly simulate the rake angle difference
analog to the rim swap, my guess is it would feel pretty close if not the same feel with 21".

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmer View Post
There were a number of reasons I went the Rally Raid 19/17 route.
I prefer the much improved handling when getting it on. Roadside repairs are possible, the Bartubeless sealing system was fitted after the wheels were completed.
More and stronger stainless spokes, the originals had been swapped and they began discolouring again soon after.
Conti Trail Attac 2's fitted and after 1500+mls of use, there's been no loss of pressure and I haven't had to tighten any spokes so far.
Pretty much 100% road use so not worried about the offroad capability that may or may not have been lost.
I can't help but modify bikes as long as there is improvement to be had and this is a keeper for me, so I don't mind blowing the dough as I don't feel any need to be saving for a new bike.
The bike is far more predictable and confidence inspiring with this set up so I feel it's money well spent.
Tubeless on rims suited to that end was the aim the rest is a bonus that was expected from past experience so I'm a happy camper for now.
One regret, I didn't buy the Ohlins forks that were on sale here a while back, I bought the shock from him but at that time I was thinking about a KTM 200exc and was holding back pending a possible purchase.
More fool me, I've since put my old TY 250 R back in use to appease getting dirty again.
I will definitely go Bartubless, because hearing so many horror stories on the fast tube deflation... and I travel so much on it would be more conveniant !


Also the state being what it is in Switzerland changing rims I think is impossible, because I would have to hire a lab to test and "homologate" the rims to
assure that handling and braking is not negatively impacted, so imagine the costs of doing this... otherwhise if you have an accident the insurance company
will take the modified wheels as a reason not pay and you're ******.

Last edited by Djairouks; 04-18-2019 at 05:04 AM.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 12:01 PM
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It would be great if we had a "sticky" thread detailing all the tubeless options (sealing tape, rims, etc.). i personally don't to spend about 20% of the bike's purchase to buy a new set of rims to dramatically improve my flat resistance. Having 2 flats in less than 600 miles, while riding on the road, is really unacceptable. What a huge waste of time having to replace the tubes. The icing on the cake is how quickly the tire loses air.

I'll never forget when I was just 10 years old watching a guy on a motorcycle get a flat tire in the middle of the turn. My father and I were following him and we saw the carnage first hand. The rear tire went flat very quickly, you could sit. In an instant the bike went across the center line into the other lane. That car swerved to try and missing him and was partly successful. The bike sort of grazed along the side of the car until it ran headlong into a following truck.

My dad immediately stopped and ran to give aid as he was a doctor. I of course followed along. My dad did all he could to keep the guy alive until the ambulance alive. Don't know if the guy made it or now but my dad did all he could. To this day I don't know how my dad was able to do anything as my overwhelming impression is I was looking at hamburger (ground beef) with a helmet on top.

So I don't know if the stock tires suck, or if the tubes do, or what exactly. I do know that I want to do something ASAP so I don't deal with any more rapid deflation like I already have. The level of pucker factor I've already experienced is something I don't want to repeat. Given that I often let my sons ride my bikes who are vastly less experienced than i, really drives the point home I need to do something ASAP.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 01:02 PM
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I hear what your saying, tube tires were a huge deterrent for me in buying the AT and actually kept me from buying it much sooner. After researching the sealing tape method I decided to go with the AT and will do the tape method to go tubeless. I hate to waste the stock tires that are on it now so not sure if I'll wait until they are worn out or just bite the bullet and get new tires along with some tape. I dread getting a flat somewhere out on the road with these tubes so have a feeling I'll go tubeless very soon.

'17 Africa Twin, '82 MB5, '78 XL250s, '72 CB350K4
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 03:05 PM
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If I lived in countries like the United States where there are thousands of miles of gravel roads, deserts and jeep tracks to go at, I would certainly have stuck with a 21/18 combination as I truly believe our bikes are definitely aimed at that market. Honda definitely dropped the ball when they didn't supply the original AT's stateside.
On the postage stamp we call the UK we've got a number of green lanes that turn into a skating rink with the slightest drop of moisture and would test the worlds best on an AT.
I've put my bike on its side once with the bars on the slightly downhill side and it is a monster to pick up on your own. Add thirty pound of wet **** stuck to it and you'd want to be a gorilla to pick it up second or third time it goes over. 500lbs+ of bike plus fuel is not to be sniffed at when you're stood in wet grass or mud and struggling for grip just to stay on your feet never mind levering a bike up as well.
Dinged rims won't seal if you're tubeless and miles from home out in the boonies but a new tube probably will.
My ride is now suited to what I encounter in normal use in the UK but would probably be unsuitable if I lived on some of the larger land masses where it is really aimed at.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 07:07 PM
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If I am going to ride really technical offroad I'd rather have something like a 450 full on MX bike anyway than a pig of large bore ADV bike. I do like exploring the forest roads and easy trails.

@skimmer - while exploring the limits of a GSA I had previously I encountered some situations where the bike fell down hill and off camber. I was wishing I had a sat phone to call in a helo to airlift my bike out. I am not a tiny guy by any stretch but I was looking for trees I could string a line to and sort of winch it up off the ground and upright. Fortunately a couple of guys rode by and help me picked the pig up.

I can't forget the joys of having a 500 or 600 pound bike falling over and trapping your leg under it while the exhaust sears some part of your body or gear.

So I am definitely going to watch my offroad excursions with any of my ADV bikes. However every day I can enjoy the comfy riding position, fun riding dynamics and the ability to soak up bumps that would crush my spine on other bikes. One thing I need to address is better tires.

I rode the AT like some of my other bikes where I left a little strip of unused rubber along the tire's edge. Basically leaving a little buffer for when riding on the street if I had to lean a bit more to avoid something in a turn. When I looked at the rear of my AT when I got a flat tire I was worn all the way to the edge. I'll have to be more careful when riding it on the street and watch my lean angles. I didn't think I was pushing it that hard and the rear tire did seem to stick pretty well.

I might seriously consider going with a 19/17 setup. It might better suit my intended purpose of the bike. Should still do fine on the forest roads.
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