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'18 AT/AS DCT, is the power socket , or 12V system really that weak?

7K views 34 replies 16 participants last post by  WeeWilly 
#1 ·
Gents,
As many of you are, I'm looking at or, thinking about, a GPS unit for the AT. I have red many, many posts/threads about using phones and dedicated GPS units and, it's definitely mind boggling/bending on what's out there, what works or doesn't work, and what's compatible, what it will accomplish and all that. But, also like many of you, I'd like to power whatever I buy, by the bikes 12V system. And, as we all know, at least the '18 AT/AS units come with a power socket, at or very close to the top of the left fork tube, just inside the fairing.

But, in its infinite wisdom, HONDA, in the owners manual, does not say whether or not, the power socket is switched power or not. At least I haven't found where it says or not. So, I just buzzed out to the garage where the AT is presently resting from a morning ride and, stuck a male 12V charge cord for one of my HAM radios in it. That male plug has an indicator LED on it that lights up when power is present at the female plug.

When I stuck it in, no LED light. But, turn the ignition switch on and, ZAP, Houston, we have POWER!!! Now, when I cruised through the owners manual, and found that section on that power plug, page 81, it explains all about that plug and, it's limitations etc. And speaking of limitations, in the little bullet section, the number 2 bullet states:

Set the headlight on low beam while the socket is in use. The battery may run down or cause damage to the socket

Are you kidding me?????????????? I can't even run the HIGH BEAM when that power socket is in use? What kind of charging system does the A/T have, one for a mini-bike? Oh yeah, I remember, mini bikes don't have any charging system.

So, what say you folks that have extensive experience with aftermarket electrical demands on your AT's? I'm thinking of purchasing the Garmin Zumo XT and, I have no idea what kind of demand that unit places on any 12V system. I know it's a battery operated tool but, it will need charging now and then. And, if I'm running at night, and need both the high beams AND the Garmin, what am I supposed to do, reach down and shut off the Garmin when I need hi beam?
Scott
 
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#2 ·
I have a Rowe PDM60 and love that thing; have all my lights (aftermarket) and GPS hooked to it. Now with that said, I really don‘t notice much of a drop on my voltmeter when using my high beam. I get about 0.1 V drop with my OEM heated grips. But never noticed my drop/drain when my Zumo GPS is on. Yea it is in essence plugged into the battery but still....
 
#3 ·
#4 ·
I am quite certain that the warning is in regards to operating at low rpm operation. There are many bikes that won't handle much of an electrical load at idle and will slowly draw the battery down if just idling or putting around slowly. If you are running above about 2K rpm I am sure you will not have an issue. The biggest concern Honda has is for heated gear as typically the load requirements are a lot higher than a GPS etc. I would not be surprised at all that the battery would run down while using a heated jacket and running the high beams especially at low rpm. On the highway it would not usually be an issue.
 
#5 ·
I am quite certain that the warning is in regards to operating at low rpm operation. There are many bikes that won't handle much of an electrical load at idle and will slowly draw the battery down if just idling or putting around slowly. If you are running above about 2K rpm I am sure you will not have an issue. The biggest concern Honda has is for heated gear as typically the load requirements are a lot higher than a GPS etc. I would not be surprised at all that the battery would run down while using a heated jacket and running the high beams especially at low rpm. On the highway it would not usually be an issue.
I would agree with that. I have run the high beams, auxiliary lights and heated grips and haven't had an issue with the 12v socket. I think under normal riding conditions it isn't an issue.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
Well gang,
I finally found the specs on alternator output.
" Capacity …………………./ .49KW/5,000 rpm (min)
So, how that actually converts to AMPS (which is all I know about charging systems), I have no idea. One more thing, as most of you know, ALL the lights on an '18 AT/AS DCT are LED so, there's not very much draw on an electrical system from the lighting side. I suspect that running a GPS from that socket is gonna be just fine. I just would like to know just what that alternator puts out, in terms of amps.
Scott
 
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#8 ·
Hey DT,
Ya know, I cruised around on the net to find a conversion calculator for that ".49KW" to amps and, what I got when I applied it to the equation, was about 36 amps. But, I didn't know if I did it right. But, even at 36 amps at say, 5,000 rpms which, in my book is SCREAMING that engine, if you cut down the rpms, to say, 3,500 or so for normal type cruising, that would be cutting the rpm by about what, maybe a third, plus or minus. Then simply cut the alternator output by a third and, you get 24 amps. Of course all of this is speculation. I'll give the bike the benefit of the doubt and say 20 amps at 3,000-3,500 rpms. And yet they still say to cut the high beam when using that power socket. Hmmmm. That's why I'm not an engineer. Just doing a lot of guessing here.
Scott
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hey DT,
Ya know, I cruised around on the net to find a conversion calculator for that ".49KW" to amps and, what I got when I applied it to the equation, was about 36 amps. But, I didn't know if I did it right. But, even at 36 amps at say, 5,000 rpms which, in my book is SCREAMING that engine, if you cut down the rpms, to say, 3,500 or so for normal type cruising, that would be cutting the rpm by about what, maybe a third, plus or minus. Then simply cut the alternator output by a third and, you get 24 amps. Of course all of this is speculation. I'll give the bike the benefit of the doubt and say 20 amps at 3,000-3,500 rpms. And yet they still say to cut the high beam when using that power socket. Hmmmm. That's why I'm not an engineer. Just doing a lot of guessing here.
Scott
Hey Scott:

Yeah, I didn't want to assume the output of the charging circuit was proportional with engine RPM. I have no idea.

But yes, if one assumes (wrongfully or not) a linear-ish relationship, then I speculate 21.5 A @ 3000 RPM, or more or less what you estimated.

I guess Honda knows this is an issue on that circuit, otherwise they would have not posted a recommendation (or warning?). All I know is Honda recommends limiting the accessory socket to a 2 A load. Maybe this is higher on the ATAS models (7.5 A?).
 
#13 ·
Set the headlight on low beam while the socket is in use. The battery may run down or cause damage to the socket

Glad to know that, I go no owner's manual with USB the dealer installed in my AT.
It has been great.
I have not ridden at night while charging, but will remember to keep the RPMs up!
 
#14 ·
You should be fine (without extra RPM) with a widely available non-quick charging 12V-to-USB socket accessory. I speculate this is what you have.

Arguably, maybe even the quick ("Q") charging could be "okay" since stated maximum currents are typically rated at 5V at the USB output, but I have not tried.
 
#15 ·
Well Gang,
You boys have confirmed my suspicions. And one of those is that, I suspect that Honda put the really low limit on that 12VDC power plug so that folks won't plug in an electric lawn mower and follow their kids mowing the lawn or pasture. So, plugging in a potential GPS unit surely ain't gonna tax that charging system and or that plug. I wonder, since the lighting on the old A/T is all LED, just what it takes, ELECTRICALLY, to run it? That is, there's a fuel pump I'm assuming, and anything else involved in running the IMU or ECU (if it has one) and what ever.

Let's just say, it takes oh, maybe 10 amps to run that bike, at any speed, at any rpm. That would potentially leave at a minimum of around another 10 amps, even at the lower calculated rpms of around 2,000-3,000. And, based on all our theories, it would leave even more amps, around 30 more, at 4,000-5,000 rpms. Now, this is all a guess you see. So, this is all kind-a interesting.
Scott
 
#16 ·
I don't think there is much to worry about with a GPS. An alternator (unlike the genators that we enjoyed on 70's Guzzi's and BMW's, is not a linear device with RPM. Once off idle, they are putting out most of their potential current.

Just be sure to dim your light at stoplights (if I am facing you across the intersection, at least!) :cool:

For what it is worth, I plugged one of these goofy USB chargers with a voltmeter and amp meter that displays one or the other every few seconds. I find my Samsung Note 8 draws about .5 amps when thirsty, tapering down to around .2 amps while naviagiting on a full charge.

adapter with volt/amp meter

When I crank up the heated grips to max, volts doesn't move, ususually between 12.8 and 13.1 when running down the road.

Bought it because I learned the DCT no likey low voltage, and thought maybe I could get a little warning when the new battery is about to fail, this time, unlike the last time.

Put my aftermarket 12v lighter outlet on the Eastern Beaver PC8, with a 10 amp fuse, just incase I want to run a compressor from it or something. (Or maybe a very small electric Bar-B-Que!);)
 
#17 ·
Hey Beowulf,
I surely thank you for that info. I'd like to get one of those little meters but, that one you linked is unavailable. I might try and look other models up to see if there's any. Thanks also for that info on the A/T's alternator output. Very much appreciated.
Scott
 
#20 ·
For clarity to Forum folks:

The optional accessory 12V socket is limited to 2A at 12V. This is according to Honda. Further, the year 2018+ optional accessory 12V has no built-in fuse (maybe the fuse is elsewhere?). The pre-2018 year version of the accessory did and the accessory wiring harness was different.
 
#30 ·
Yeah, the kit I put on my 2016 came with a little 2A sticker I applied to the fairing next to the socket. It also has a 7.5A fuse in the harness. Not sure which part of the wiring system restricts the socket to 24W. That makes me wonder if some other part of the circuit has some issue with higher current flow. And if it really is to be limited to 24W, why not put a 3A fuse in the circuit? So many questions.
 
#22 ·
Willy,
I'm gonna have to concur with DoubleThumper on this. This is what's in the '18 owners manual:

Accessory Socket CRF1000A II/D II The accessory socket is located in the left side inner panel cover. Use accessory devices at your own risk. In no event shall Honda be liable for any damages to your accessory device when in use. Open the cover to access the socket. Rated capacity is 24 W (12 V, 2 A).

And, kind-a like I stated earlier, ALL of my lighting is LED so, at least on the lighting side of things, the electrical draw, even at idle, is minimal. Your statement of:

"If this is true, just don't idle the bike with everything electrical running for many, many minutes."

I'm wondering about that. Now, don't shoot the messenger here, I'm still learning quite a bit about the AT. I would think that, in this time frame of manufacturing motorcycles, especially Honda, they would engineer an electrical system, and again, especially the AT, to be capable of handling ANY set of electrical demand circumstances in operation. The AT, any version, is purchased and sent all over the world and, is presumably expected to operate in night time operations as well as daytime. The specs Honda puts in the Service manual are not all that definitive, like they are in other manufacturers manuals. At least not in the way I would understand them.

But, when I say the electrical system should handle any given set of operational circumstances, i.e. hi beam, low beam, flashers, idling, etc. I'm suggesting a BONE STOCK AT. Not one that has multiple aftermarket electrical devises, i.e. GPS, auxiliary lights (multiple sets), phone charging, GPS charging, and whatever else is or can be installed on an AT that demands some sort of electrical current. Those of you that have installed many of the aftermarket items I mentioned, have not stated that you've experienced any low voltage supply problems, at any rpm range, at least not that I've red anyways.
Scott
 
#28 ·
Willy,
I'm gonna have to concur with DoubleThumper on this. This is what's in the '18 owners manual:

Accessory Socket CRF1000A II/D II The accessory socket is located in the left side inner panel cover. Use accessory devices at your own risk. In no event shall Honda be liable for any damages to your accessory device when in use. Open the cover to access the socket. Rated capacity is 24 W (12 V, 2 A).

And, kind-a like I stated earlier, ALL of my lighting is LED so, at least on the lighting side of things, the electrical draw, even at idle, is minimal. Your statement of:

"If this is true, just don't idle the bike with everything electrical running for many, many minutes."

I'm wondering about that. Now, don't shoot the messenger here, I'm still learning quite a bit about the AT. I would think that, in this time frame of manufacturing motorcycles, especially Honda, they would engineer an electrical system, and again, especially the AT, to be capable of handling ANY set of electrical demand circumstances in operation. The AT, any version, is purchased and sent all over the world and, is presumably expected to operate in night time operations as well as daytime. The specs Honda puts in the Service manual are not all that definitive, like they are in other manufacturers manuals. At least not in the way I would understand them.

But, when I say the electrical system should handle any given set of operational circumstances, i.e. hi beam, low beam, flashers, idling, etc. I'm suggesting a BONE STOCK AT. Not one that has multiple aftermarket electrical devises, i.e. GPS, auxiliary lights (multiple sets), phone charging, GPS charging, and whatever else is or can be installed on an AT that demands some sort of electrical current. Those of you that have installed many of the aftermarket items I mentioned, have not stated that you've experienced any low voltage supply problems, at any rpm range, at least not that I've red anyways.
Scott
Lenny from RevZilla agrees with you :)
Also talks about "excess capacity" which is the meat of this discussion.
How to add heated gear to your motorcycle
 
#23 ·
I know my voltmeter says 13.2 and hags there most of the time no matter what I have on. But I have yet to see what I would do maxed out with all my lights and electronics on @ idle speed for the most part I’m moving when using that stuff. I‘m guessing it is just precautionary; in general people see a 12v outlet and try to run everything off it, inverters, laptops, their campsite. I could easily see someone setting up camp with the high beams on and a flood light plugged into the socket..
 
#26 ·
My 2005 rancher es has the same low output warning for the accessory outlet. Like OP, I originally thought what is this tom foolery?

Turned out to be a moot point. It has no issue handling my big sprayer motor while puttering around spraying the pasture. It also powersy 12 volt air compressor fine and runs the 3000 lb winch.

All are rated 3 to 4 times the amperage that the manual says not to exceed. I've yet to blow a fuse.
 
#27 ·
Specs are usually related to wire size and thus current capacity.
250Watts approximately 25 Amps @ typical 10V is about all you are going to get on old vehicles - depending on the fuse or course.
Newer vehicles and motorcycles use less copper and smaller wire sizes - hence the 2-4 Amp max on power outlets. Anything more than that and wire insulation begins to soften, melt and the wires short out.

Know your amps, volts, watts and wire size current capability before assuming it should work.
 
#29 ·
Before my Adventure Sport, I had, still have an R1100GS, a bike designed in the early 1990s. It came as standard with a power socket. Rated at 15A and connected directly to the battery, always live it could be used to power items or as a charging point for the optimate. So useful in almost every way imaginable. When I got the Honda... I was rather more than just disappointed with the power socket. I wondered what's it for? What use is it to me? No use at all as it turns out.. Though that might change when I finally catch up with the times and buy a smart phone. My GPS is connected to the aux. connection behind the front plastics. Anyway... I am going to copy my antique BMW and add an always live socket. Using the alleged toolbox that covers the battery to hold it with the fuse in the box itself.
 
#33 ·
I just checked and the smaller fuse box 2 under the seat has the option circuit for the 12V socket. The biggest draw to share this 10 amps would be heated grips. Thankfully Honda eliminated the in-line 2A fuse on the 12V socket on the 2018. A GPS should not draw more than 1A.
 
#35 ·
What year bike Olias?
 
#34 ·
Olias,
I thank you for that information. This what's great about this forum. Lots of helpful folks.
Scott
 
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