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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As title says, I'm expecting my ATAS 18' to be delivered early December, deposit has been landed and bike chosen. I know there are better bikes out there for this but you cant go against hart.
Bike has 7k km and is coming "only" with Honda side racks.
In the last few days I've been reading intensively and gathering information on generally AT and ATAS. Found a lot of interesting stuff as well as week points.

Point of this thread is to gather as much as info before spring for 2 up riding in one place and getting ATAS ready for miles ahead of us.
I've seen a lot of users have complained on stock suspension setting for AT and a lot of upgrades are offered there.

First planned upgrades will be QS since bike is intended for 2 up, mostly pavement riding it will makes shifting much more comfortable for pillion, wind deflector up and down, beefier rubber plated foot-pegs for pillion and central stand. Cruise control would be desirable but will leave that for later on.
I would like to go from tube's to tubeless as majority of riding will be on pavement, it will make life much easier in case of any flats and to get the better feeling from the road. Not only sure how tubeless conversion will work on front wheel due to its tube design.
Seen here that a lot of people went Outex kit, and only intended "off-road" will be light gravel, gravel roads and well maintained forest paths.


As far as suspension goes I haven't been able to figure out has the "soft" issue of AT been resolved on ATAS with longer suspension travel.
2 up without gear and luggage 150-160 kg or 340-360 lb give or take on top of that we need to add gear and luggage.
That is bringing us very close to max allowed load. Is stiffer rear spring needed on ATAS to get a proper sag and get suspension working in right direction and with upgraded rear spring are any modifications needed for front suspension to follow rear upgrade.
Two things which cough my eye are Hyper-pro rear spring 20mm which has been an widely used and a lot of positive feedback and Andreani cartridges for front end.
Hope cartridges can be avoided as i wouldn't like to go ballistic with modifications and expenses, once you open that box is no turning back.
I would like to have a bike that can handle decent in twisty roads although of her disadvantages with 21" wheel but wouldn't like to lose that comfort reputation that it has gained.

Top box I was looking original Givi Trekker 46L as it follows design of original ones, but in last i start opting for Givi Outback 42L due to shear size.
Difference in volume is not that huge but in terms of design they differ a lot. I found Outback to be more of a compact type compared to Trekker which is wider and could have effect for handling.
Again since main purpose of top box will be for pillion back support I would like to hear comments of owners with both of the racks and their feedback.

Hope another thread with common questions will not agitate anyone but I would like to have all in once place for getting ATAS ready for 2 up
Mainly these are my doubts so far, any suggestion or information is more than welcome .
 

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Would not personally even think of a QS on this bike, let alone think it would be better for pillion, just smoother and more rear brake works for me.


Not sure what effect the deflectors would have either for 2 up.


Yes on the deleux pegs, pricy, and depend on their derrier, maybe an airhawk.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Would not personally even think of a QS on this bike, let alone think it would be better for pillion, just smoother and more rear brake works for me.


Not sure what effect the deflectors would have either for 2 up.


Yes on the deleux pegs, pricy, and depend on their derrier, maybe an airhawk.
I have from factory a QS on my SMCR and upshifts are just flawless. Although when I'm solo hooning aroud im shifting with clutch as I like engagement with bike but when it comes 2up it's more comfortable and upshifts you can barely feel differce between gear change. Hard to beat that by shifting manually. Downshifts on other hand are more smother old fashioned way with clutch and bit of throttle.
 

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I enjoy having the quickshifter on my ATAS and while don't use it all the time it does work well for intended purpose. I also have the Honda panniers which are suitable for my needs currently though may look at other options in the future. I added TPMS and planning to do a tubeless conversion when I swap the tires, just waiting on Dunlop Trailmax Mission.



I'm 113 kg, the ATAS suspension is under sprung and under valved for me. I looked at options from springs to revalve to various replacement options and my Ohlins HO648 shock with 105 N/mm spring just arrived so will be installing very soon.



For the fork, I'm awaiting Ohlins FKA111 cartridge with 7.5 N/mm springs which I'm hoping will be suitable since it's the max rate available in this fork spring from Ohlins, otherwise I'll have to find a higher rate spring elsewhere.



I didn't want to spend the money I am either but springs and revalving wouldn't have been cheap either.



There is some very good suspension related info on AdvRider with recommended spring rates and more technical info on valving and such too.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ohlins does make really magnificent suspension pieces but they do come at a cost.

In case of any upgrade I will be seeking some less expensive solution. For now my favourite just rear upgrade and hopefully that will do the trick
 

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Generally speaking you have 3 options with the AT suspensions, in greater money order: (1) replace springs, (2) replace springs and revalve, (3) replace shock/forks.
The OEM shock and forks are not bad units: if you don't need/want fancy gears, I would just replace springs. ATAS is no different from standard AT, probably the longer travel suspensions will even accentuate the "problem".

HyperPro sells a kit with both springs together. I've been in contact with HyperPro tech support and they confirmed me that their rear progressive spring stiffness is, in average, around 90-95 N/mm and its calibrated for a 85 kg driver. Keep in mind that, being progressive, will feel harder when you load it more (2 up).
Will be useful to replace front springs, too, because they are really soft and will emphasize the annoying (for me) rear-front change of load when braking (pitch). Also a stiffer front spring will help keeping a correct motorcycle trim (SAG).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@deltabi thanks bud. Will definitely looking into front spring option too and get in touch with Hyper-pro and see what they're saying. So far my mind is set for rear Hyper-pro spring and if budget allows Andreani cartridges as with this price currently they are in my opinion bargain.
Only thing which confuses me with Hyper-pro rear spring is that they offer 20+ mm spring and ATAS already has increased suspension travel and bigger ground clearance.
 

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@deltabi thanks bud. Will definitely looking into front spring option too and get in touch with Hyper-pro and see what they're saying. So far my mind is set for rear Hyper-pro spring and if budget allows Andreani cartridges as with this price currently they are in my opinion bargain.
Only thing which confuses me with Hyper-pro rear spring is that they offer 20+ mm spring and ATAS already has increased suspension travel and bigger ground clearance.

@Svabo, you're welcome.

They produce (and recommend) the +20mm spring to improve the bike's trim (ie. to have a less "seated" bike and therefore make it snappier in the turns). I suspect that, because in the initial part of its travel their spring is pretty soft, they compensate by making it longer. This way when you load the bike you don't loose any (or much) height and keep the bike high in the rear.

About Andreani's cartridge I've read some comments by friends who decided not to mount them because they are very "sport/road" oriented, ie. pretty stiff. This is an hydraulic characteristic of the Andreani's forks. It looks like they don't mate very well with the Africa Twin, especially with the OEM rear shock.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good to know, I've seen options on their site for intended use of cartridges like road, track, touring and I was thinking that road touring option would be a softer a spot on choice. Well something to think on now, and obviously im getting close to Hyper Pro spring upgrade front and rear which is the budget friendly too
 

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I wouldn't do anything to start with. Try it properly two up and do gradual changes IF you deem them necessary. My 17 AT is still standard and does most miles two up including a recent 1800 mile week long trip round Scotland.We try to pack sensibly (lighter) and keep weight low with only very light things in the top box. Soft suspension? I just ride accordingly and don't have any issues. The bikes now at 16k miles
 

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Svabo: Perhaps what I have done to my 2018 ATAS any the reason for it will be of some value to you. My bike is set up with Tusk panniers on Givi racks, has Heed bunker bars and a few other minor things that add to the weight. it weighs in at 601 lbs full of fuel and with tools loaded in panniers (probably more tools than I need) I weight 225 lbs in riding gear. With the shock pre-load at the full 35 clicks the sag was 42% with a target of 30% or so. I shipped my forks and shock to Cogent Dynamics in North Carolina and they put heavier springs up front, a heavier over-spring on the shock, and machined a shim for that spring to accommodate a little more weight. I now sag at about 32% with the pre-load at 20 clicks, leaving me 15 clicks for baggage/gear. I do not worry about 2-up, and actually removed the co-rider pegs as they were one more potential to catch my calf with a foot down and break my leg. My Goldwing is sufficient for the occasions when my wife wants to go along.

I guess the translation is that a suspension that was designed for a 150-lb rider is going to to need some "beefing up" if it is going to accommodate some of us over-fed westerners, and that would be doubly so for 2-up riding. Good luck.
 

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Generally speaking you have 3 options with the AT suspensions, in greater money order: (1) replace springs, (2) replace springs and revalve, (3) replace shock/forks.
The OEM shock and forks are not bad units: if you don't need/want fancy gears, I would just replace springs. ATAS is no different from standard AT, probably the longer travel suspensions will even accentuate the "problem".

HyperPro sells a kit with both springs together. I've been in contact with HyperPro tech support and they confirmed me that their rear progressive spring stiffness is, in average, around 90-95 N/mm and its calibrated for a 85 kg driver. Keep in mind that, being progressive, will feel harder when you load it more (2 up).
Will be useful to replace front springs, too, because they are really soft and will emphasize the annoying (for me) rear-front change of load when braking (pitch). Also a stiffer front spring will help keeping a correct motorcycle trim (SAG).

Did they say if they do a rear spring for slightly heavier riders?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@VFMoore I'm located in East Europe so Cogent Dynamics is unfortunately ruled out. Mainly from what I've managed to read so far I think it will be HyperPro spring upgrade front and rear as far as suspension goes and it will do a trick. Knowing myself any other option im affraid it will open the door of investments where there is no turning back and in the long run and bike purpose i doubt it is reasonable.
Basically, again from what I've have read (softness) I just want to get suspension ready for 2 up and light luggage as for now we wont be able to do any trips longer than 2 day cause of our 3 year old.
I doubt that I will take this bike in any serious offroading as I have MX bike for that puropse and as far payment goes I'm aiming for solid ride with 2up
 

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Hyperpro does have +20mm springs for ATAS fork and shock, I looked at that option doing research for mine.


https://hyperpro.com/honda-crf1000l-adventure-sports/


The new Honda CRF1000L Adventure Sports 2018 at HYPERPRO

SPRING KITS

SP-HO10-SSA036 FRONT SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSB036 REAR SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSC036 COMBI SPRINGKIT

LOWERING KIT

SP-HO10-SSA037 -25MM FRONT SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSB037 -25MM REAR SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSC037 -25MM COMBI SPRINGKIT

RAISING KIT !!!!!!!!!!

SP-HO10-SSA038 +20MM FRONT SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSB038 +20MM REAR SPRINGKIT
SP-HO10-SSC038 +20MM COMBI SPRINGKIT


SHOCK

HO10-0AP 460 SHOCK (REBOUND ADJ.)
HO10-1AP 461 SHOCK ( DOUBLE COMPR. ADJ.)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've got a reply from HyperPro concerning intended bike purpose for 2 up and weight of 2 up with 160 kg without gear and luggage

"
For your use, this would be the recommended kit:
CRF 1000 L adventure sports (also DCT) 18-19 preferred kit, seat height +20mm SP-HO10-SSC038
Please note the following: the spring will be able to cope with the weight you have given, but the OEM damper is already quite soft and with the new stronger spring, the damping will most likely limit the bike.
It would therefore be a better solution to order a new shock, made to your weight, but we realize this costs quite some more money.
As said: the spring will be an improvement, but we want you to be aware what it does and what the limitations are "
 

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I've got a reply from HyperPro concerning intended bike purpose for 2 up and weight of 2 up with 160 kg without gear and luggage

"
For your use, this would be the recommended kit:
CRF 1000 L adventure sports (also DCT) 18-19 preferred kit, seat height +20mm SP-HO10-SSC038
Please note the following: the spring will be able to cope with the weight you have given, but the OEM damper is already quite soft and with the new stronger spring, the damping will most likely limit the bike.
It would therefore be a better solution to order a new shock, made to your weight, but we realize this costs quite some more money.
As said: the spring will be an improvement, but we want you to be aware what it does and what the limitations are "
Another option would be revalve it. I would install the spring and see how it goes. Then eventually revise the hydraulic part.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Do you have any link on needed part's for upgrade or any shop in Europe which is doing this for rear shock. Cost of HyperPro rear shock is not so small
 
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