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Has your 2018-2020+ Africa Twin Adventure Sports experienced fueling/idling/stalling/loss of power?

  • Yes. I have had the dealership/Honda resolve the issue(s) under warranty at no cost.

  • Yes. The dealership resolved it for me, but my warranty was expired and I had to pay out of pocket

  • Yes. I have had these issues, but resolved the problem on my own and Honda is not aware.

  • No. I have not had these issues, but I took precautionary measured (Guglatech Filter, etc.)

  • No. But I am concerned that I will have this issue down the road.

  • I have contacted Honda about my concerns

  • I have filed a Safety Defect Report with NHTSA or other regulatory agency per Owners Manual


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I admire your optimism! I truly hope that is the case and that is where we're headed. Time will tell.
It is only a supposition, but I do believe that Honda has seen this problem enough that they know all of the ATAS's sold are affected to at least some degree. They probably don't even think it is worth the mechanics' labor in checking the tanks anymore. If a customer believes they have the issue, then order a pump, scrub the tank and replace it. I am guessing that there is not a single untreated ATAS out there that doesn't have at least some of that flaking going on.

It may be Honda's version of a "silent recall," which would be OK if it was guaranteed to work the first time every time. I can tell you/them, it is no guarantee. I have had mine done twice already.
 

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The dealership low-key and/or silence on the issue is still no way to treat a customer.

"We will deal with it" is affirmative and is what the customer would like to hear. Maybe details can be discussed after, but the customer wants an expectation set. A statement like this goes a long way, even if Honda service takes a month to do it - they will do it.
 

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The dealership low-key and/or silence on the issue is still no way to treat a customer.

"We will deal with it" is affirmative and is what the customer would like to hear. Maybe details can be discussed after, but the customer wants an expectation set. A statement like this goes a long way, even if Honda service takes a month to do it - they will do it.
Credit to my dealer on that. Right from the start they said "We know what the problem is and we have to order a fuel pump and 2 injectors." They never even bothered to test ride it or try to replicate the issue.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 

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For whatever it's worth to anyone, I found when I had the issue that working with the dealership got me through much better than working with Honda. It took a minute to get there, but once I was able to actually show them what I was talking about (they'd apparently not seen it before) the tune changed and they were all about helping me out. They parted a floor bike to get me on the road, installed the Guglatech sock I handed them, and got me underway, entirely under warranty.

This situation sucks, for sure. I am planning to have the garage check the filter every major service (the sock filter) and brush it off if they find anything. I'm eating the service cost on that and I know I shouldn't have to, but this is where I am. I've paid for this bike, I've added a ton of custom parts at this point, and apart from this one detail, the bike's a dream. There's nothing quite like it out there.

If at some point I get a letter in the mail saying my tank's been recalled, I'll be thrilled. But those tanks are hella expensive and until something drastic happens (investigation) I can see a twisted logic in assuming each new AT is going to burn through 2-3 fuel pumps while this crap gets worked out of the system. It's sill much cheaper than replacing all those tanks. Hopefully the number of complaints gets higher at the NHTSA.

If you didn't already know, filing a complaint at the NHTSA is super easy and can be done entirely online (you will need your vin): File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA
 

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Thanks for your update. I have a great relationship with my dealer (we’re long time friends) so I believed them when they said they had not seen this before. They will scope my tank when I take the bike in with low fuel so they don’t have to submerge their lense in gas. I have 5200 miles on it with no problem yet but apparently it could happen any time.
This forum is great because it made me aware of the potential problem and now I could fix it on the road if I had to.
 

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It is only a supposition, but I do believe that Honda has seen this problem enough that they know all of the ATAS's sold are affected to at least some degree. They probably don't even think it is worth the mechanics' labor in checking the tanks anymore. If a customer believes they have the issue, then order a pump, scrub the tank and replace it. I am guessing that there is not a single untreated ATAS out there that doesn't have at least some of that flaking going on.

It may be Honda's version of a "silent recall," which would be OK if it was guaranteed to work the first time every time. I can tell you/them, it is no guarantee. I have had mine done twice already.
”I am guessing that there is not a single untreated ATAS out there that doesn't have at least some of that flaking going on.”

I agree. I own a welding/fabrication shop and a hot dip galvanizing plant. I don’t know how you could weld galvanized steel and not have this problem...zinc melts at 787F and welding is obviously much hotter so you’re gonna have that transition zone where there’s some zinc flaking.
 

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Thanks for your update. I have a great relationship with my dealer (we’re long time friends) so I believed them when they said they had not seen this before. They will scope my tank when I take the bike in with low fuel so they don’t have to submerge their lense in gas. I have 5200 miles on it with no problem yet but apparently it could happen any time.
This forum is great because it made me aware of the potential problem and now I could fix it on the road if I had to.
For what it's worth, I highly recommend you have them drain, pull and inspect the tank. If you look from the underside of the tank, through the hole where the filter mounts, you're staring right at the weld points for the seat mount, which is one of the spots this can happen. I'd also have them look at the fuel filter just to be safe. It's going to run you 1.5 to 2 hours of labor, depending on your garage, but I simply cannot stress enough how much hassle, stress and safety it can save you, even if all they did was brush the filter off.

If you haven't seen it (since it's buried in this monster of a thread) you can see what was inside my tank here. Being able to let the service manager see that with his own eyes really changed how my situation was going. Your mileage may vary, of course, and I know labor isn't cheap and you shouldn't have to do this. But the peace of mind found in verifying/preventing this very dangerous situation is well worth it IMO, provided you can make it happen.

I would have paid a couple hundred bucks in service not to have my fuel cut out on the interstate, I assure you. :)
 

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What is the difference between the tank of the AT and The ATAS? is the AT tank only made from 2 pieces so it has one welding and the ATAS from 3 or more pieces so more weldings. I see more and more documents that zinc and galvanized steel is a bad combination with ethanol. Our safety authority in the port of Rotterdam has published a paper about the risks of bio and ethanol based petrols. See also the white paper of Emerson. The rumors are going that biobased fuels will be disappear with in a couple of years due to a lot of problems
 

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”I am guessing that there is not a single untreated ATAS out there that doesn't have at least some of that flaking going on.”

I agree. I own a welding/fabrication shop and a hot dip galvanizing plant. I don’t know how you could weld galvanized steel and not have this problem...zinc melts at 787F and welding is obviously much hotter so you’re gonna have that transition zone where there’s some zinc flaking.
If it's the case that ATAS tanks are built in a 'normal' way, why isn't every bike manufacturer experiencing these problems (and as the post above points out, why the apparent difference between the AT and ATAS tanks - I've done over 40k miles on two standard AT's with no sign of the problem).
Mike
 

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I'm certainly no expert, but you can look at the tank seams and see that those aren't really affected by the issue. This tells me it's an order-of-operations thing. For whatever the reason, some welds on the AS tank are done after coating has taken place. This may not be the case with the standard tank.

I'd love to get a look at the inside of the standard's tank via the fuel filter hole, to see if those seat brackets have any buildup.
 

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After around 2K miles with the guglatech filter over the fuel pump assembly I have had no power problems. While this doesn't resolve the issue long term at least I can safely ride. I hear through my Honda dealer that the Honda Rep said that Honda is fianlly realizing this is a production problem and hopefully coming up with a real fix.
 

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I had brief conversations today with both the dealer and Honda Canada. The level of detail I'm getting from the dealer is aggravating to say the least. The dealer said that they have replaced my pump and filter assembly without really knowing it was the problem and they said that the tech thought the amount of crap in the filter was close to "normal". They have been unable to replicate my issue. I'm going out there tmrw to see for myself and get pics. Honda Canada is standing by the old "we have never heard of this" and "nothing on record"...I can't express my extreme disappointment over such a well documented issue and to just let your customers dangle...it's atrocious. So, I may be on the hook for the replacement if I cannot get the service manager to agree with me that what I suspect I'll find is indeed the white crap we all know so well. Unfortunately the service manager is away until Tuesday for the holiday. I will save my outrage for after I've seen my old parts, which I'm told must be saved for Honda warranty if that's the case.

I'll update tmrw.
 

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I had brief conversations today with both the dealer and Honda Canada. The level of detail I'm getting from the dealer is aggravating to say the least. The dealer said that they have replaced my pump and filter assembly without really knowing it was the problem and they said that the tech thought the amount of crap in the filter was close to "normal". They have been unable to replicate my issue. I'm going out there tmrw to see for myself and get pics. Honda Canada is standing by the old "we have never heard of this" and "nothing on record"...I can't express my extreme disappointment over such a well documented issue and to just let your customers dangle...it's atrocious. So, I may be on the hook for the replacement if I cannot get the service manager to agree with me that what I suspect I'll find is indeed the white crap we all know so well. Unfortunately the service manager is away until Tuesday for the holiday. I will save my outrage for after I've seen my old parts, which I'm told must be saved for Honda warranty if that's the case.

I'll update tmrw.
Hmm, indeed not impressed.

2020 is almost done. 21% into the 21st century. Social communication is alive and well. Big corporation marketing departments [should] have a finger on the pulse of owner feedback, especially in regards to "respectable" forums. How could they not know about this issue is quite simply blatant corporate lying or negligence.

Upon learning that Honda Corp. actually did not know about the issue or was negligent in trying (and even after being warned by owners that it could be an issue), it would not surprise me that loyal owners abandon the brand and ensure others "be warned" of Honda's failure of due diligence and/or simple lack of honesty.
 

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Dear Honda:

It is reasonable to assume that Forum Honda owners desire a quality product, and in this case, the Africa Twin.

Don't be so negligent in ignoring or not trying to acknowledge there is a product impediment.

In the past few decades we have seen giant corporations rise and fall.

Don't be that corporation that turned its head away from something like, "Rider Lives Matter". That would be a problem no corporation wants.

Sincerely,
A Honda owner.

P.S. Don't be so sure it would not expand into something like, "Driver Lives Matter". These days it seems that hubris is no longer tolerated, nor it should be.

P.S.2 Make the right choices for loyal and passionate Honda owners and "Rider Lives Matter" can be leveraged to your advantage. Anyone remember, "Let the Good Times Roll."?
 

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Today's update: The dealer did keep the old pump but did not "keep" the filter...they cleaned and re-installed. When I asked why, I was given no answer beyond "I guess that's what was required" I asked for pics...apparently there are none. I would assume if you're installing a new pump the filter goes with it??? Call me crazy here, but WHAT THE ACTUAL FUDGE are people doing here???

I also re-iterated that I had agreed to cover the labour cost of an inspection (tank and filter) if no problem was found. I had not agreed to pay for parts, that was their idea not mine. And, to my knowledge and satisfaction no inspection has been documented beyond the tech saying the filter had a "normal" amount of crud on it. So before I lose my marbles on these guys and go apesh!t...I will wait for Tuesday as the service manager has now been asked to call me...if I wanted my bike today, I would have to cover the whole works...that's just not gonna happen.

EDIT: Guglatech on order. Obviously I can't trust that I'll be looked after.
 

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I had brief conversations today with both the dealer and Honda Canada. The level of detail I'm getting from the dealer is aggravating to say the least. The dealer said that they have replaced my pump and filter assembly without really knowing it was the problem and they said that the tech thought the amount of crap in the filter was close to "normal". They have been unable to replicate my issue. I'm going out there tmrw to see for myself and get pics. Honda Canada is standing by the old "we have never heard of this" and "nothing on record"...I can't express my extreme disappointment over such a well documented issue and to just let your customers dangle...it's atrocious. So, I may be on the hook for the replacement if I cannot get the service manager to agree with me that what I suspect I'll find is indeed the white crap we all know so well. Unfortunately the service manager is away until Tuesday for the holiday. I will save my outrage for after I've seen my old parts, which I'm told must be saved for Honda warranty if that's the case.

I'll update tmrw.
That seems crazy that Honda Canada is still trying to play that "We have never heard of this" game. At least American Honda has been frank about the issue, even if they don't seem to have a permanent solution. The guy I talked to from American Honda said that they were having 'corporate meetings on the issue," so would it be wrong to assume that Honda corporate in Japan also is well aware of the issue?

Perhaps Honda Canada needs to reach out to their counterparts in the USA and Japan and get up to speed if they really haven't heard of the issue. Though somehow I doubt the honesty of their claim.
 

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That seems crazy that Honda Canada is still trying to play that "We have never heard of this" game. At least American Honda has been frank about the issue, even if they don't seem to have a permanent solution. The guy I talked to from American Honda said that they were having 'corporate meetings on the issue," so would it be wrong to assume that Honda corporate in Japan also is well aware of the issue?

Perhaps Honda Canada needs to reach out to their counterparts in the USA and Japan and get up to speed if they really haven't heard of the issue. Though somehow I doubt the honesty of their claim.
This is nothing but a really big game of CYA at the expense of Honda owners....PERIOD.
 

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That seems crazy that Honda Canada is still trying to play that "We have never heard of this" game. At least American Honda has been frank about the issue, even if they don't seem to have a permanent solution. The guy I talked to from American Honda said that they were having 'corporate meetings on the issue," so would it be wrong to assume that Honda corporate in Japan also is well aware of the issue?

Perhaps Honda Canada needs to reach out to their counterparts in the USA and Japan and get up to speed if they really haven't heard of the issue. Though somehow I doubt the honesty of their claim.
Mentioned in other forums: Honda Canada is weak.

Honda Canada bends over for Corporate Honda Japan. [Colony] Honda Canada are told what to do and how to do it, and otherwise, don't speak unless spoken to. Note: This is not an expressed opinion.

I suspect Honda America has more clout and decisions can actually affect Corporate Honda's bottom line.
 

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I’d say that’s not far from the truth, if not spot on. I’ve heard similar things in regard to a number of other industries. Our numbers just don’t factor here.

EDIT: I'll give an example of scale; I used to use this one when teaching theory classes to commercial driving students...might be a bit outdated now but the statistical comparison was that the southern California basin uses more diesel fuel every year than all of Canada combined. And of course because of California environmental legislation heavy truck manufacturers only build to suit California laws...in other words if they can't sell it in Cali...they don't make it at all. Same goes for the bulk of firearms manufacturing, very, very rarely, if ever do we get a US made, unique to Canada model firearm. Like truly never.

So why would Honda be any different??? Corporate juggernauts couldn't give a crap about Canada.
 
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