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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trans Alp 750, VStrom 850, Tenere 700.... so many capable new midsized ADV bikes.

Are these products intended to bait younger riders on price, or are they a retirement plan for old guys currently riding big ADV bikes?

This old guy is curious what you all think.
 

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Trans Alp 750, VStrom 850, Tenere 700.... so many capable new midsized ADV bikes.

Are these products intended to bait younger riders on price, or are they a retirement plan for old guys currently riding big ADV bikes?

This old guy is curious what you all think.
Personally I think that most have tried the big ADV bikes and soon realise that for any serious off road use of when your bike lies down for various reasons, the lighter the bike the easier it is to keep it upright and or pick it up. And these midsize bikes have more then enough power to still do what we want.
 

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I have encountered feelings about making midsize ADV bigger.
If a young person wants to jump in the ADV world, the 650 will do more than enough, given the proper skills.
And if you have so much skills, surly you will be jumping to endure bikes, no ADV.
A bigger engine with more power will be heavier and more expensive, so I think you need to spend the monies on it (old guy with retirement plan), but there were already many 1000+cc ADV doing the same job.

Old 650 --850 V-Strom
Old 660 - 700 Tenere
Old 800 - 900 Tiger
And the same with 1000+ engines
There is so much power in those engines, that I doubt I can ever use it all.

BUT do they look cool :cool:
 

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Trans Alp 750, VStrom 850, Tenere 700.... so many capable new midsized ADV bikes.

Are these products intended to bait younger riders on price, or are they a retirement plan for old guys currently riding big ADV bikes?

This old guy is curious what you all think.
I dont think its bait, merely just giving riders young and old more choices. I feel the Japanese are trying to accommodate everyone and are now doing a dam fine job.
I am surprised its taken this long for the japanese to cotton on to the 2 cylinder thing. And Kudos to them for not joining the euro horsepower war. I for one want civilised longevity.
And if horsepower is your thing, well who else can build a supercharged motorcycle with a 2 year warranty!
Just my 2c
 

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I think it’s a mixture of things;

  • Big Adv market is quite saturated
  • Big Adv bikes are NOT cheap/in reach of many people across the globe.
  • Mid Adv’s are much more capable across all terrains combined (rider ability permitting)
  • Mid Adv’s are actually the weapon of choice for most people whom actually do Adv ‘adventures’ ride (traditionally), think DR650, KLR’s et etc.
  • Mid Adv’s are perfect for most travelling across the planet, in remote places.
  • Connected to all these points on my list, it’s an open market for marketing departments.
 

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... the Japanese firms like Honda also need to continue to milk the cc displacement market segment before the window closes on fossil fuel consuming vehicles. The revenue will help fund next generation alternative riding technologies.
 

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Honestly, I don't think young riders are looking to spend €10k+ on A2 bikes; and the A2 segment is quite literally ****.

Most younger folks and students I know ride older Transalps, Funduros, Funduos and so on; bikes that cost around €2k on the second hand market. Anything over €5k is a really tough pill to swallow for most people in my age group and financing isn't done in my country.

Me walking into a dealership to pay a €17k bike in cash, new even had the dealer doubting if I could even afford it. And honestly, the only reason I can justify me buying this bike is because I literally do not own a car and tend to go out and live on my bike for a few months a year.
 

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I'd say it's a little bit of both. I mean, the TransAlp is less than 100lbs heavier than the ATAS ES DCT. Yeah 100lbs is 100lbs, but IMHO, if you're having issues, that extra weight won't be as much as an impediment as where/how the bike went down. Full transparency, I currently ride an HD that weighs a little north of 750lbs, and I've had to lift it once (thank the motorcycling gods for engine guards), and struggled a few times getting it into the large shed (ramp) recently, but that's after having busted my right wrist.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the middleweight ADV bikes, the TransAlp in particular. I think it speaks to a lot of people as a capable tarmac tourer, and has the ability to go through some dirt, sand, gravel, and fire roads. Anything else, and they can look at more capable bikes. The cost proposition is also there too. Yeah I don't take my HD off road, but to get into a truly capable cruiser/touring bike, you're talking $15K minimum from HD. Mine was $28k. Look at the Pan-America, it's an $18k base price and $23k with all the farkles. BMW 1250GSA, you're looking at a sticker of $25K.

For me, if I were going to get into proper ADV riding, I'd look at supermotos. However, I'm looking at traveling to my destinations and then doing skill appropriate off road riding, so the ATAS ES DCT makes the most sense for me.
 
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I think it’s a mixture of things;

  • Big Adv market is quite saturated
  • Big Adv bikes are NOT cheap/in reach of many people across the globe.
  • Mid Adv’s are much more capable across all terrains combined (rider ability permitting)
  • Mid Adv’s are actually the weapon of choice for most people whom actually do Adv ‘adventures’ ride (traditionally), think DR650, KLR’s et etc.
  • Mid Adv’s are perfect for most travelling across the planet, in remote places.
  • Connected to all these points on my list, it’s an open market for marketing departments.
People used to place fairings/windshields, saddle bags or panniers and top boxes on the Honda CB-750 SOHC and ride all over the world with pillion in many cases. At that time, it was considered a big bike. The current bikes in that class are now considered mid-size even though they are capable performance wise of more than the older machines. Add in the North American perception that bigger is better and smaller is bad. Most large adventure bikes are ridden by older riders who are not able to lift what they could 20 years ago. It makes for a strange picture.
 

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Honestly, I don't think young riders are looking to spend €10k+ on A2 bikes; and the A2 segment is quite literally ****.

Most younger folks and students I know ride older Transalps, Funduros, Funduos and so on; bikes that cost around €2k on the second hand market. Anything over €5k is a really tough pill to swallow for most people in my age group and financing isn't done in my country.

Me walking into a dealership to pay a €17k bike in cash, new even had the dealer doubting if I could even afford it. And honestly, the only reason I can justify me buying this bike is because I literally do not own a car and tend to go out and live on my bike for a few months a year.
This is a real response from a young adult , and that is what I thought.
Power / weight / farckles worth nothing if you can't afford it. That applies around the world.
If you are a young adult with not much disposable income, would you buy a car or a motorcycle for the same price?
So all this new high range mid size motorcyles are for "mid life crisis" people who have the money to spend in a new hobby.
Yes, that has being the market's target for a while, hence the road vias ADV, think of:
Would you like to experience freedom? Do what you want, go everywhere, go out and explore, get on a bike etc, etc etc, trying to sell the biggest motorcycle you can dream / pay for.
Once you have some time in the ADV world, people tend to realise that 1300cc is just way to much on dirt.
Once you lift your bike after dropping it several times , you realise you need to go to the gym more often (oh wait, your doctor and your wife already told you) or get a lighter bike
THEN we have a solution, buy the new lighter, midsize ADV bike now with more power !

In my very close mind opinion, bikes should come in 100 / 250 / 500 / 750 / 1000
All the in between are trying to get extra hype out of cc displacement. Just to compete with the upper level.

Anyway.. that is my rant about the market's move.

I always say that with modern engines, 650cc can do plenty on most scenarios (let alone a 750).
I had a V-Strom 650 with 70HP, it was great, just a bit small for my long legs.
The ATAS has the correct size for me (and looks great too), although a smaller engine / lighter bike would be ideal for a do it all bike.
Transalp with a 750cc and 208kg sounds ideal to me. Time will tell if I need to change.
 

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For me, if I were going to get into proper ADV riding, I'd look at supermotos. However, I'm looking at traveling to my destinations and then doing skill appropriate off road riding, so the ATAS ES DCT makes the most sense for me.
You must not have ridden very many supermotos; they make terrible street bikes.
 

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This is a real response from a young adult , and that is what I thought.
Power / weight / farckles worth nothing if you can't afford it. That applies around the world.
If you are a young adult with not much disposable income, would you buy a car or a motorcycle for the same price?
So all this new high range mid size motorcyles are for "mid life crisis" people who have the money to spend in a new hobby.
Yes, that has being the market's target for a while, hence the road vias ADV, think of:
Would you like to experience freedom? Do what you want, go everywhere, go out and explore, get on a bike etc, etc etc, trying to sell the biggest motorcycle you can dream / pay for.
Once you have some time in the ADV world, people tend to realise that 1300cc is just way to much on dirt.
Once you lift your bike after dropping it several times , you realise you need to go to the gym more often (oh wait, your doctor and your wife already told you) or get a lighter bike
THEN we have a solution, buy the new lighter, midsize ADV bike now with more power !

In my very close mind opinion, bikes should come in 100 / 250 / 500 / 750 / 1000
All the in between are trying to get extra hype out of cc displacement. Just to compete with the upper level.

Anyway.. that is my rant about the market's move. now get off my lawn HAHAH

I always say that with modern engines, 650cc can do plenty on most scenarios (let alone a 750).
I had a V-Strom 650 with 70HP, it was great, just a bit small for my long legs.
The ATAS has the correct size for me (and looks great too), although a smaller engine / lighter bike would be ideal for a do it all bike.
Transalp with a 750cc and 208kg sounds ideal to me. Time will tell if I need to change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My hunch is that the marketing departments see these midsize bikes as more of a downsize/customer retention strategy than an upsize/growth strategy.

I say this because as a young rider in the 1980s I went from entry level directly to the top (ie: SR250 to XJ1100) without wasting time and money in the middle, whereas as an older rider today it would be really easy to downsize to the middle.

The only piece that doesn't fit this puzzle is that the manufacturers delete cruise control and other goodies that are really hard to give up once you've experienced them. And so this old guy will keep riding The Beast for the foreseeable future, risking life and hernia every time he ventures off the beaten path.
 

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My hunch is that the marketing departments see these midsize bikes as more of a downsize/customer retention strategy than an upsize/growth strategy.

I say this because as a young rider in the 1980s I went from entry level directly to the top (ie: SR250 to XJ1100) without wasting time and money in the middle, whereas as an older rider today it would be really easy to downsize to the middle.

The only piece that doesn't fit this puzzle is that the manufacturers delete cruise control and other goodies that are really hard to give up once you've experienced them. And so this old guy will keep riding The Beast for the foreseeable future, risking life and hernia every time he ventures off the beaten path.
there must be a premium differentiator between midsize / top of the range. Cruise control, heated grips, better weather protection, etc. All those are or will be available aftermarket anyways.
 

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... And so this old guy will keep riding The Beast for the foreseeable future, risking life and hernia every time he ventures off the beaten path.
Fortunately hernias are routinely fixed by slicing it open, body naked and cold on operating table as the she-nurse apologizes as your junk falls between your legs.

The future continues to glow.
 

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I don’t know I started on a KLR650 which was about 430ish lbs at the time and now the ATAS which is 550ish lbs. A bit heavier but honestly when I was 20 that KLR still felt really heavy if i took it in inappropriate places. I just learned early not to take inappropriate bikes into places they shouldn’t go unless you have superb skills.

AT’s go pretty much anywhere you’d like to go touring and be riding all day. Nobody really goes touring on stuff like the Rubicon trail anyway lol.

.
 

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People used to place fairings/windshields, saddle bags or panniers and top boxes on the Honda CB-750 SOHC and ride all over the world with pillion in many cases. At that time, it was considered a big bike. The current bikes in that class are now considered mid-size even though they are capable performance wise of more than the older machines. Add in the North American perception that bigger is better and smaller is bad. Most large adventure bikes are ridden by older riders who are not able to lift what they could 20 years ago. It makes for a strange picture.
It does, and lets face it most people in the developed world buy these bikes and don’t exploit all their capabilities? That said, it’s selling a dream and after all isn’t that what motorbikes are all about - dreaming of being taken some where not here, in a fun way?

Personally, I love purpose build Adv bikes because they are so capable in different scenarios, a sort of Swiss army knife of bikes if you like. Whilst I have travelled across many terrains on different types of bikes, the fact I have one that can do it all so comfortably/with out much compromise is a joy, and that notion still makes me smile now.

Ease - may be thats the metaphor for Adv bikes and modern living, avoiding the need to make-do by actually having the tool (albeit arguably too much for most applications) to do the job with ease! Is that progress, I don’t know but I love it?!
 

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I contemplated a lighter bike... but I finally opted to build the sidecar rig, instead, on a brand new 2021 Adventure Sport DCT.

Doesn't seem to fall over in the sand, carries a little more gear, without adding panniers, and now that I have the geometry dialed in, corners like it's on rails.

Went with the best suspension I could afford (Ohlins at all three corners), and plenty of farkles.

I think it will take me on the adventures that I dream of, out in the desert. Also does goofy stuff like running from Phoenix it Eugene OR in a couple of days, if I want to get somewhere relatively fast, but don't want to trailer it.

Definitely an old guy assemblage; way too much money when compared to sane vehicle options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Fortunately hernias are routinely fixed by slicing it open, body naked and cold on operating table as the she-nurse apologizes as your junk falls between your legs.
This illustrates the importance of correct lifting technique.

Next time I find myself on some isolated forest trail while The Beast lies on its side, I will think about what you said here today, take a deep breath, then light it on fire and walk away.
 

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This illustrates the importance of correct lifting technique.

Next time I find myself on some isolated forest trail while The Beast lies on its side, I will think about what you said here today, take a deep breath, then light it on fire and walk away.
Whilst gesturing a blessing and muttering the words "god rest your soul"?
 
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