Honda Africa Twin Forum banner
21 - 40 of 42 Posts

· Registered
2023 Africa Twin 1100 manual (on backorder)
Joined
·
150 Posts
My hunch is that the marketing departments see these midsize bikes as more of a downsize/customer retention strategy than an upsize/growth strategy.

I say this because as a young rider in the 1980s I went from entry level directly to the top (ie: SR250 to XJ1100) without wasting time and money in the middle, whereas as an older rider today it would be really easy to downsize to the middle.

The only piece that doesn't fit this puzzle is that the manufacturers delete cruise control and other goodies that are really hard to give up once you've experienced them. And so this old guy will keep riding The Beast for the foreseeable future, risking life and hernia every time he ventures off the beaten path.
The problem isn't the hernia, it's when the bike becomes actually immovable. I've been there, I've had to drag the bike over the ground for a few meters, remove luggage and come up with creative ways of actually getting it back on the rubbers.

As for bikes we ride, some countries have a tiered license system; you can't simply go from one class of bike to another. We also have a load of regulation in regards to what is actually allowed on the road further complicating things.

I as example decided to wait until I was 21 to get a full license that's restricted to 35kw for two years. Considering the 35kw market is relatively new all the new shiny 35kw bikes are rather expensive. Getting a beater detuned to 35kw requires a type rating a lot of said beaters lack and costs about €900 to get road legal again. This is all to have a 35kw bike to essentially bridge a two year gap.

Not to mention the entire cost of entry for young people is pretty significant already, you need;
A license, approx €1500
Something to wear, €500-1000 at minimum
A bike, at least another €1500 for a beater that may or may not even run properly; and said beaters are only worthwhile if you have some mechanical ability.


New bikes are mainly for older people with money, us youngsters can only wait for them to be cheaper on the 2nd hand market. Frankly, if you'd were to make a bike targeting youngsters it's gonna be the 300-400cc class and has to be under €5k new. Considering even bikes like the MT125, Grom and so on are already above that price tag indicates the difficultly.

Most of the young folks are looking for something that runs reliably for cheap, not some farkles. It's the "boomers" market that demands all the features and farkles.
 

· Registered
2022 HD Low Rider ST EL Diablo
Joined
·
31 Posts
You must not have ridden very many supermotos; they make terrible street bikes.
Apologies, I should've gone further. To me, a supermoto is a bike you trailer to the destination that you want to ride at, not ride the supermoto to and from the destination as well.

It's a moot point for me as I want to do touring and off-road riding, so an ADV bike it is.
 

· Registered
2022 HD Low Rider ST EL Diablo
Joined
·
31 Posts
Same here, although I do have a small dual sport as well for mostly off road. I'm really loving my AT.
I just can't wait to get my hands on one. I'm hoping that come spring with the 2023s out that I can snag a sweet deal on a 2022 in the RWB livery. If not, I won't lose too much sleep over it. I'm just getting impatient because I've been drooling over this bike for the last 3+ years! :cool:
 

· Registered
2023 Africa Twin 1100 manual (on backorder)
Joined
·
150 Posts
These age comments got me thinking I’m a rare breed. In my 30s (but still look like I’m in my 20s) and on an AT. My cousin told me that the bike will age me when I bought it haha
I'm barely 25, the bike definitely doesn't age you. However the big adventures do make you invisible to cops, unlike some crotch rocket :).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
911 Posts
I'm barely 25, the bike definitely doesn't age you. However the big adventures do make you invisible to cops, unlike some crotch rocket :).
I'm barely 25, the bike definitely doesn't age you. However the big adventures do make you invisible to cops, unlike some crotch rocket :).
A police officer once told me when he encounters a large bike with panniers and top box running over the limit but not excessively so, his first assumption is an older rider out for a relaxing ride. Unless the rider does something to prove otherwise, he lets the bike continue on its way. A sport bike with no panniers or top box, no visible turn signals and modifications to the back which result in the license plate becoming less visible is a different story. Even if only slightly over the limit, his first impression is some youngster needs to be taken to task before he gets into more trouble.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
A police officer once told me when he encounters a large bike with panniers and top box running over the limit but not excessively so, his first assumption is an older rider out for a relaxing ride. Unless the rider does something to prove otherwise, he lets the bike continue on its way. A sport bike with no panniers or top box, no visible turn signals and modifications to the back which result in the license plate becoming less visible is a different story. Even if only slightly over the limit, his first impression is some youngster needs to be taken to task before he gets into more trouble.
Another dead giveway for the police is when Back to the Future has just been released, and some skinny teenager blows through a speed trap hunched over the gas tank of a screaming SR250 in a futile attempt to reach 88 mph. Ask me how I know :rolleyes:
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
4 Posts
Trans Alp 750, VStrom 850, Tenere 700.... so many capable new midsized ADV bikes.

Are these products intended to bait younger riders on price, or are they a retirement plan for old guys currently riding big ADV bikes?

This old guy is curious what you all think.
Or is the mid class category intended to bait old guys into ADV riding? That was my case coming from a woods and enduro background. I thought the 1000cc+ class ADV bikes were way too much machine for my first road/ADV bike. I was fortunate to find a well preserved fully adventure equipped 2002 BWW 650 Dakar a year ago. Very little investment to get my toe in the water. Didn't take long to get comfortable on the 650 and knew a bigger bike with more touring capabilities was the best fit for my true needs. Which big ADV bike to buy and how I landed on the ATAS DCT ES is another story:).

Tire Wheel Fuel tank Automotive lighting Automotive tire
 

· Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Or is the mid class category intended to bait old guys into ADV riding?
Good point. After decades of cruiser bikes I didn't go directly to the Africa Twin. My gateway drug was a Yamaha MT09, which gave me a taste for upright ergonomics and gravel road exploration without the intimidating bulk.

After spending all sorts of money in a futile attempt to turn an MT09 into an ADV bike, I did the time-honored trick of deciding that it was time to trade up and donate all those modifications to the next owner.
 

· Registered
2022 HD Low Rider ST EL Diablo
Joined
·
31 Posts
These age comments got me thinking I’m a rare breed. In my 30s (but still look like I’m in my 20s) and on an AT. My cousin told me that the bike will age me when I bought it haha
Something will only define you if you let it. I didn't get into motorcycling until my late 40, for myriad reasons, but the two biggest were raising young kids and my arthritic wrists and hands. They've been that way since my late 20s-early 30s. If the DCT had been available back then, I'd probably have started. As it is, 2 of the 4 clutched bikes I've owned have had a Rekluse auto clutch installed, and the 4th one is just waiting for me to order it, which I will be today.

I think the ADV segment appeals to "life experienced" new riders for the following:
  • They want the more relaxed upright seating position
  • They aren't crazy about the idea of a 600-800+ cruiser/touring bike
  • They don't like the connotations that are typically assigned to cruising/touring riders (especially HD)
  • They like the on-board storage or ability to add panniers for storage
  • They have grandiose dreams of going on amazing off-road adventures, some do it, some fall short
I say if you love the bike, who cares? Other people don't get an opinion unless they bought the bike for you, or are making the monthly payment, they share a bed with you :ROFLMAO:
 

· Registered
2018 ATAS DCT
Joined
·
118 Posts
I say if you love the bike, who cares? Other people don't get an opinion unless they bought the bike for you, or are making the monthly payment, they share a bed with you :ROFLMAO:
I got very lucky, the woman who share a bed with me was the one suggesting the AT for me. #BestWifeEver
So she can have any opinion about the bike. She rides too, so she understand very well the advantages and disadvantages of different models and specs.
For real, as much as I know that ATAS DCT have more capabilities than I am able to exploit, it helps me in what I do, or at least it makes some stuff easier ( other not so much, like lifting it from the ground ). That includes weekdays commuting (80km per day) and weekends off roading.
If I were able to get the same features in a 650cc - 750cc engine and with 40 kg less, I would have bought it instead.
My main reason to buy the ATAS was the frame size. I am 44years young and 1.86m tall and other bikes end up short in the standing up position for me.
 

· Registered
2022 HD Low Rider ST EL Diablo
Joined
·
31 Posts
I got very lucky, the woman who share a bed with me was the one suggesting the AT for me. #BestWifeEver
So she can have any opinion about the bike. She rides too, so she understand very well the advantages and disadvantages of different models and specs.
Mine's the #BestWifeEver over on this side of the pond. She's always supported what I've chosen to do (at least when it was fiscally viable). She's passed the MSF class, but in Ohio (we live in New York and they won't accept it). She's taking her road test in the spring and has her eyes set on that new "baby bagger" Honda Rebel 1100 DCT they just introduced.

I agree, I'd love a "baby" ATAS ES DCT that comes in around 200 kg. I'd even be willing to pay a (reasonable) premium for it. I have no grandiose plans of going out to MOAB or tackling Dakar. I'm the mostly tarmac traveler with occasional fire roads/gravel roads - at least until I get more skilled.

Considering I'm 1.75m tall (not bad) but have a 762mm inseam, a 19" front wheel would do me just fine. I can flat-foot an ATAS, I'm just nervous about needing to stop suddenly on uneven terrain and not being able to get a good grip. Considering all I've owned have been heavy land beasts (current bike is 750 pounds without any extra gear or farkles), I'm sure I could handle the weight of an ATAS, but they're different beasts with different purposes.

My biggest hurdle is that I live in NY where it snows 6+ months of the year (typically), and rains at least half of the other 6 (typically). I don't mind riding in the rain, but snow/ice is a bit dicey. If I lived in a more temperate climate, I'd ride everywhere. Wife can have a car if she wants, I won't need one. :LOL:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
Are you sure there is a T9 version ? Be aware of African scammers, lol, I lost them 500 bucks, no no sorry it was a Chinese.
A T9 is a pipe dream... One i wish yamaha would consider, a-la MT09. Why not, Triumph do it. The T7 is a MT07 engine.
Anyways something like that. More than happy with my 19 AT standard 😁
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Top