Honda Africa Twin Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of July's Ride of the Month Challenge! Theme: Drop it like it's hot!
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, just wondering how people have gone on with the gold wheel corrosion. My Adventure sport is 10 months old, I've done 7k miles and been all, over europe last summer in the heat wave. The bike got tucked up into hibernation back at the end of November, cleaned, dried and ACF'd. It was at this point that i noticed the black spots mainly on the brake side of the rear rim, thinking it was oil from the chain I tried to clean it off and realised it was actually corrosion. I did a little on line re-search and am under the impression that it is caused by Iron particles in the pads reacting with the gold on the rims. The bike has now awoken from its hibernation and I've took it to my main dealer for its service prior to hopefully another great years touring. I decided while I was there to initiate a warranty claim on the condition of my rims. Now this is where it gets a little tricky, the dealer is under the impression that he believes Honda are replacing rims that have been corroded by the steel spokes, and not for what I believed to be the issue with them. My bike was one of the first Adventure sports, and I have since read that the alluminium spokes were not introduced until June 2018...is this correct..? does my bike have steel spokes...?, and has anybody sucessfuly claimed on warranty for corrosion to the actual rims..? The bike itself is fantastic, but when ever I look down at that lovely little sticker "30 years anniversary Edition" I can't help but think that there will be bikes 30 years old with better condition wheels than mine...I am currently awaiting to see what Honda say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
Surely they have never fitted aluminium spokes. The stainless steel were fitted from the 2018 ata and standard models onwards. Prior to that Honda had tried single plated then supposedly double plated mild steel spokes
I am convinced the black star like corrosion in the gold rims is caused by iron particles but apparently these come from the discs rather than the pads. Ebc make an organic pad that MIGHT produce less iron particles from the disc but my dealer couldn’t source any to fit the AT back brake (which seems to be more of a problem than the front )
The only solution I can think of is to constantly wax the rear rim but that doesn’t help those who have already got the corrosion
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok, so an update. Apparently my adventure sport is fitted with stainless spokes. Honda have refused my warranty claim and said that the corrosion is condusive to salt corrosion. They can tell all this from a picture on a mobile phone apparently. The fact that 90% or the gold paint degredation is on the one side of the rear rim that the disc is situated on is irrelevant. The fact that the front wheel is undamaged is irrelevant. The fact that the bike has been garaged since October, cleaned, dried, and stored under cover in a heated garage, is irrelevant. 13.5K, 10 months old, "The Adventure Begins Here"...irrelevant....yes I'm angry....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Ok, so an update. Apparently my adventure sport is fitted with stainless spokes. Honda have refused my warranty claim and said that the corrosion is condusive to salt corrosion. They can tell all this from a picture on a mobile phone apparently. The fact that 90% or the gold paint degredation is on the one side of the rear rim that the disc is situated on is irrelevant. The fact that the front wheel is undamaged is irrelevant. The fact that the bike has been garaged since October, cleaned, dried, and stored under cover in a heated garage, is irrelevant. 13.5K, 10 months old, "The Adventure Begins Here"...irrelevant....yes I'm angry....
:surprise:

So, what's the next step?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
I think the chances of Honda replacing wheels (again) this time for black star gold rim corrosion are about nil. The difference IMHO is that no matter how often an owner cleaned the spokes the mild steel ones corroded. But if the owner were to clean the rims after every ride it would (I suspect) remove the iron particles that cause the problem. It is possible that even this regime would not work if somehow the particles are red hot and instantly bonding and damaging the anodising, but I haven't seen evidence that this is how the star corrosion is caused.
By the way - the same corrosion must be present on the black wheels but owners may not have noticed it.
One route that MIGHT hold sway with Honda is if no people who have fitted Alpina wheels have experienced the black star corrosion (I'm presuming the Alpina wheels are gold anodised).
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've dropped on a new back wheel for 225 quid, so to be honest I am happy at that and really can't be bothered to chase Honda up. The main reason I had concerns was when it comes to a trade in for a new bike, then the wheel condition would reduce the value quite substantially. Because I now have a new back wheel, I can continue to use the one that is on it, and transfer to the new one when I come around to a trade in. I was going to buy a CRF450 this year, but the way Honda customer services have been with this issue, then thats a no go now. I will probably do what most 52 year olds do.....use it this summer and go visit the BMW dealer over winter.....I'll just give the 1250 a little while to settle in and see if there are any problems. It's quite sad really because Honda have always been synonymous with quality, and I feel really let down by this issue. My CB1000 and CBR600 were fantastic bikes, you could abuse them all year in any weather and just wipe them clean, now on an adventure bike.....it rots...! There is no chance these will last 30 years like some of the first....unless of course you keep it in a vacum bag and don't use it, and god help you if you live near the sea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
Well I live near the sea David and ride through all the british winters. I don't clean my bike as often as I should but I'm reasonably happy with what Honda are providing. I know now which are the vulnerable bits and can take measures to protect them. And I don't see any bike manufacturer currently using components that will withstand the UK winter - particularly BMW. They may have done in the distant past, but so did Honda. My somewhat imperfect knowledge of BMW's is that the forks and front disk clutter is prone to corrosion. The AT is brilliant in these areas and I haven't even had to apply any special measures.
The Triumph Rocket was a nightmare for Triumph with spider-like corrosion under the clear coat they applied to the wheels. It was such a huge issue under warranty that Triumph decided to provide completely bare alloy wheels which are impossible to keep corrosion free, so owners often take them off and get them powder coated. That why I'm interested to know if anyone has tried that product I mention above.
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Hey Mike,
I have an ‘18 ATAS and I live in Brooklyn NY where salt damage will be BRUTAL whether or not I garage for the winter. Can you please share some of your methods for protecting your vulnerable bits? I try to wash every week with S100 and spray it all down with Honda spray polish and cleaner which is like lemon pledge basically. I’ve only noticed corrosion on the frame- one are where it’s chipped from my boot and also on the punched VIN numbers. Cheers and happy riding!
Jesse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
Hey Mike,
I have an ‘18 ATAS and I live in Brooklyn NY where salt damage will be BRUTAL whether or not I garage for the winter. Can you please share some of your methods for protecting your vulnerable bits? I try to wash every week with S100 and spray it all down with Honda spray polish and cleaner which is like lemon pledge basically. I’ve only noticed corrosion on the frame- one are where it’s chipped from my boot and also on the punched VIN numbers. Cheers and happy riding!
Jesse
The general principle is acf50, but not sprayed. I buy the 1 litre liquid and pour some into a jar then apply it with an artists paintbrush to every screw head and nut or bolt.
I used to do this to the brake banjos and brake line joints (why didn't Honda make these out of stainless), but a guy told me he used copperslip grease and that worked better, but looked like rust. So now I do these with some Honda Moly 60 grease which is dark grey and which I happened to have. It seems to stay on all through winter but is worth touching up with a paintbrush if it seems to have thinned out in places.
Doing the whole bike with acf50 and the grease takes about 15 minutes. But make sure you include small screws and bolts around the handlebar area as salt spray gets up here too - and around the bottom of the triple tree
I am also trying the grease on the dogleg but that took quite a while so I am not bothering to retouch that area.
As I said in a post above - I have yet to see anyone's AT with corroded disks or anything associated with them, so other than an occasional wash I leave them alone. However I have seen one front ABS sensor disk that was red rusty so might be worth painting that with acf50.
I am trying the grease on the components that are in the spray from the front wheel - so that's horn, front frame, radiator bolts etc. This suffered badly on my 2017 AT with paint flaking and cracking on the frame being the worst. But I have changed two variables at once as I have installed a fenda extenda on this bike and it looks like it does its job.
Honda have done a good design job of protecting the shock from spray but the inside left and right of the bike gets a thorough dousing - I haven't found any way to either properly clean or protects these areas (inside of silencer, insides of pillion footpegs)
Paint on the centre stand is poor and will be pretty much gone after one winter (but the sidestand is OK). My approach with this is to occasionally clean and dry it off then crudely apply Hammerite to the areas with a brush - who notices what the centrestand looks like :smile2:.
I have also found that the original Hammerite planished graphite colour is almost invisible when you apply it in small quantities to the frame welds that inevitably rust. And on my first AT the Hammerite 'repairs' to the peeling paint on the frame between the radiators was again barely noticeable unless you looked for it.
Spokes are not a problem now they are stainless, but I understand the nipples may be. I'm just going to live with corroded spoke nipples as it's too much chew to keep trying to protect them all.
For the rims I use a waterless wash and wax that is sold over here by a cheapo store called The Range. It has carnauba wax in the mix and a brilliant solvent that means you can generally do the rims quite quickly without needing to wash the bike. The same wax brings all the plastic and painted metal and the anodised forks up to a brilliant shine in no time.
Mike
PS forgot to mention - the small mild steel brackets scattered around the bike - theres about 6 or 7 of them - need doing with the grease or VERY regularly with acf50. They are badly designed with sharp edges and poorly painted. They are usually tucked pretty much out of sight so if you prefer you can just slap on hammerite when they rust
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Folks might be interested in my winter salt experience.
I have the ATAS. For 50 years I have always stopped riding as soon as the first salt was thrown on the roads (UK). Salt is first put down in October and this year they were still salting in May !. That makes for a short riding season so November 18 I bought an additional bike (CRF250L) with the intention of riding through a salted winter for the first time.

I still wont ride on wet salted roads but I reckoned that there are a lot of dry winter days that I could ride if I used ACF50. So I coated all the spokes, nipples, rims, bolts etc and set off on bone dry salted roads. I could see the white salt marks on the roads, there was no moisture but I could see that the salt was being kicked up by cars as a dust.

When I got home I could see that the parts that had been ACF50d looked dirty as though the sticky coating had attracted dust from the roads, only to be expected. I put the bike away dry in a dry garage. The following day I looked at the bike and could not believe what I saw. Every part that had ACF50 was soaking wet. Drops of water were hanging from the spokes etc. Surfaces that were not ACFd were dry.Where had this moisture come from. I think I worked it out. Salt is hygroscopic, ie it draws in moisture. There must have been moisture in the garage atmosphere that was drawn in by the concentrated salt clinging to the ACF50. The water formed into droplets as the ACF caused it to bead as part of the protective coating it had formed. I road the bike and it came back dry again. Same thing happened overnight again - water beads on the ACF50d surfaces !

So now I have ridden my first winter on dry salted roads. The bike looks like new apart from the spokes. The leading edges of the spokes show black corrosion spots that wont clean off. The spokes are steel plated like the first generation AT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
Folks might be interested in my winter salt experience.
I have the ATAS. For 50 years I have always stopped riding as soon as the first salt was thrown on the roads (UK). Salt is first put down in October and this year they were still salting in May !. That makes for a short riding season so November 18 I bought an additional bike (CRF250L) with the intention of riding through a salted winter for the first time.

I still wont ride on wet salted roads but I reckoned that there are a lot of dry winter days that I could ride if I used ACF50. So I coated all the spokes, nipples, rims, bolts etc and set off on bone dry salted roads. I could see the white salt marks on the roads, there was no moisture but I could see that the salt was being kicked up by cars as a dust.

When I got home I could see that the parts that had been ACF50d looked dirty as though the sticky coating had attracted dust from the roads, only to be expected. I put the bike away dry in a dry garage. The following day I looked at the bike and could not believe what I saw. Every part that had ACF50 was soaking wet. Drops of water were hanging from the spokes etc. Surfaces that were not ACFd were dry.Where had this moisture come from. I think I worked it out. Salt is hygroscopic, ie it draws in moisture. There must have been moisture in the garage atmosphere that was drawn in by the concentrated salt clinging to the ACF50. The water formed into droplets as the ACF caused it to bead as part of the protective coating it had formed. I road the bike and it came back dry again. Same thing happened overnight again - water beads on the ACF50d surfaces !

So now I have ridden my first winter on dry salted roads. The bike looks like new apart from the spokes. The leading edges of the spokes show black corrosion spots that wont clean off. The spokes are steel plated like the first generation AT.
I agree with all you say about the hygroscopic stuff and yes acf50 will probably cause the salt particles to stick. I guess though that as long as the acf50 coating is complete beneath the salt solution that forms in your garage, everything should be OK. Id like to add that IMHO riding WET salty roads Is more serious than Honda (and other manufacturers) believe. I have noticed that a caking of salt dries on the bike whether it's been acf'd or not. This can quickly happen if you are driving in winter through showers, and if you get back home after a few miles of dry roads, there's a caked on layer of salt. I almost said baked on because that's what it seems. In the past I would dutifully rinse the bike down with clean water from a hose as per the book. I would often then dry the bike with my sidekick air blaster. But next day I might well find like Kev that the bike was covered in water droplets (hygroscopically deposited from the overnight damp air. I experimented and found that the only way to remove that caked salt layer was via a car shampoo and a brush - which is bad news 'cos you can't do that after every ride, and also you can't get the brush in to the nooks and crannies that the salt spray will have penetrated.
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
I agree with Mike. It does take a lot of commitment to maintain a motorcycle in good condition on salted roads. But what is really annoying - nearly all of the salting is not required. The Council apply salt as soon as the temp gets anywhere near zero even though the roads are dry, no rain or snow forecast and the dew point is below the prevailing temperature. Each morning I walk through my estate to get my newspaper. The estate roads are never salted and are nice and dry. As I reach the 'main' roads in my small town the roads will be wet due to the applied salt pulling the moisture from the air. Sept 5th to May 5th for this last winter ! Rant over.
The pre stainless spoke coating seems to corrode as soon as it sees salt. I reckon one light coating is enough to turn them black - is it a zinc coating ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
I agree with Mike. It does take a lot of commitment to maintain a motorcycle in good condition on salted roads. But what is really annoying - nearly all of the salting is not required. The Council apply salt as soon as the temp gets anywhere near zero even though the roads are dry, no rain or snow forecast and the dew point is below the prevailing temperature. Each morning I walk through my estate to get my newspaper. The estate roads are never salted and are nice and dry. As I reach the 'main' roads in my small town the roads will be wet due to the applied salt pulling the moisture from the air. Sept 5th to May 5th for this last winter ! Rant over.
The pre stainless spoke coating seems to corrode as soon as it sees salt. I reckon one light coating is enough to turn them black - is it a zinc coating ?
Kev - presumably you are talking about the spokes on your CRF250? as IIRC all ATAS bikes were supplied with stainless steel spokes and the standard model AT got them from model year 2018 onwards.
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Yeh I assumed that the CRF250 spokes were coated with the same stuff as the pre stainless AT spokes. The nature of the black corrosion looks the same. I am interested to know what that coating is if anyone has that info.
My ATAS has Alpina gold wheels and no corrosion from brake disc particles etc after 3300 miles. Only summer miles !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
My somewhat imperfect knowledge of BMW's is that the forks and front disk clutter is prone to corrosion.
Anyone moaning about Honda wheels should feel lucky they dont own a recent GS Adventure like I do. Mine is only a year old and has done about 6000 miles and yet has had both wheels replaced because some of the spokes were loose and I mean loose as in you could move them up and down with your fingers. This is a common problem on late model 1200 GSA's but it still took BMW weeks and months to accept it as a recall problem. Rumour has it that BMW changed their wheel supplier to a Chinese manufacturer recently

I now own an ATAS as well as the GSA which followed a long line of BMWs and I can testify that recent BMW build quality doesnt feel any better or worse than Honda
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top