[FullThrottle]

Found a French video with the Africa Twin and Super Tenere Dyno charts. Maybe someone who speaks french can give us a general rundown of what he's saying but for now you can still take a look at the chart.

 

[Adventurer]

Don`t know what he`s saying but most importantly we can see the charts and seeing great off the line power and a good stream of power throughout the power band is all I need to see

Thanks for finding and posting this.

 

[anotherbiker]

Hard to read those charts, but looks well down on performance compared to the Super Tenere if I do read them right. Slightly disappointing... I knew the AT was slower than most big adventure bikes, but at least expected it to be closer to the Super Tenere, which is a bike many criticise as being under-powered.

Oh well, I guess I'm not buying it for outright performance...

 

[JustPlainBill0]

Hard to read those charts, but looks well down on performance compared to the Super Tenere if I do read them right. Slightly disappointing... I knew the AT was slower than most big adventure bikes, but at least expected it to be closer to the Super Tenere, which is a bike many criticise as being under-powered.

Oh well, I guess I'm not buying it for outright performance...

Considering the Super Tenere weighs 80 pounds (584# wet) more than an Africa Twin and puts out 90 RWHP (rear wheel horsepower) you're looking at 1 HP per 6.5 pounds of weight. At 504 pounds wet and (est) 80 RWHP, the Africa Twin comes in at 6.3 pounds per HP. The AT is down on horsepower, but should be pretty evenly matched in performance. Except in really rugged off road settings where the weight advantage of the AT will let it out perform the S-10 easily.

(Calculated AT RWHP by allowing 15% drive train loss - so 0.85 x 94 hp at flywheel is 80 at rear wheel. Should be close enough.)

 

[erey]

The article with the video

Le tout nouveau bicylindre parallèle de 998 cm3 de la Honda Africa Twin, ne dépasse pas 100 chevaux sur le papier. Les ingénieurs Honda l'ont voulu ainsi, ils ont misé sur l'agrément, la réactivité du moteur et la concordance technique avec la transmission à double embrayage DCT optionnelle. Nous avons pu passer au banc de puissance une version standard, à boîte de vitesses classique.

Signalons que notre moto d'emprunt affichait moins de 300 kilomètres au compteur. Néanmoins, la Honda Africa Twin 2016 a tout de même atteint 103,3 chevaux à 7 809 tr/min et 10,8 mkg de couple à 5 858 tr/min (valeurs relevées au vilebrequin). A comparer aux données constructeur : 95 chevaux à 7 500 tr/min et 98 Nm à 6 000 tr/min. Les mesures relevées au banc de puissance sont donc assez fidèles aux données officielles. Par ailleurs, l'allure des courbes correspond également de près à celles évoquées par Honda. Nous retenons la grande linéarité des courbes (puissance et couple), signe d'un remplissage optimisé, sans creux ou trous à l'accélération.

Les reprises sont d'ailleurs très convaincantes et le bloc Honda se distingue par sa grande réactivité à l'ouverture des gaz : Il est vif et reprend partout sans être mièvre. Peu avant 4 500 tr/min, un léger - très léger - creux se remarque sur la courbe. Il correspond pile à la plage de régime d'homologation et Honda a du le prendre en compte lors du développement du moteur car ce léger plat est aussi discret sur les courbes que guidon en mains. Signalons enfin que l'allonge de ce moteur s'avère quelque peu atténuée à haut régime (après 7 500 tr/min). Compte tenu de l'allure générale des courbes et de la santé de ce moteur à mi régimes, Honda pourrait sans doute garnir davantage ce bloc au niveau de l'allonge. Ce sera sans doute le cas pour un futur modèle qui héritera de ce moteur. Une moto plus sportive ? ou une super Deauville 1000 cm3 ? pourquoi pas...

google translation

The all-new parallel twin 998 cm3 Honda Africa Twin, does not exceed 100 horsepower on paper. Honda engineers wanted it so, they relied on the approval, engine responsiveness and technical consistency with the DCT transmission optional double clutch. We were able to move Rig standard version, conventional gearbox.

Note that our borrowing motorcycle showed less than 300 km on the odometer. Nevertheless, the Honda Africa Twin 2016 still reached 103.3 horsepower at 7809 rev / min and torque of 10.8 kgm at 5858 r / min (values ​​measured at the crankshaft). To compare with manufacturer's data: 95 horsepower at 7500 rev / min and 98 Nm at 6000 r / min. The measures identified Rig are fairly faithful to the official data. Moreover, the curves also correspond closely to those mentioned by Honda. We retain the linearity curves (power and torque), a sign of an optimized filling, without hollows or holes in acceleration.

Repeats are also very convincing and Honda block is distinguished by its high reactivity in the throttle opening: It is quick and takes anywhere without being cutesy. Shortly before 4500 rev / min, a slight - very slight - troughs remark on the curve. It corresponds to the stack approval rev range and Honda had to take it into account during engine development because this lightweight dish is as discreet as the curves handlebar hands. Note finally that the extension of this motor turns somewhat attenuated at high speed (after 7500 rev / min). Given the general shape of the curves and the health of this midrange engine, Honda could probably fill more this block at the draw. This is probably the case for a future model that will inherit this engine. A sportier bike? or super Deauville 1000 cm3? why not...

 

[marsbeetle]

Dyno charts are generally optimistic so if they read over the claimed 95HP take it with a pinch of salt. The curve is the important part.

I will certainly add an after market exhaust to my AT once I've done a few hundred KM's. This should further reduce the weight and give better throttle response if I can remove the cat.
@erey - is the exhaust a two or three piece system on the AT ? ...sometimes the catalytic converter is a separate piece. I can't really see from pictures as it looks like there is a heat guard in the way.

 

[iSlanderYT]

I looked up BMW R1200GS and KTM 1190 Charts too to compare. Well, that was interesting...

 

[anotherbiker]

Fair point Bill on including the weight in the calculation. Though, in that case the Triumph Tiger 800 could be interesting comparison, as it's significantly lighter than the DCT Africa Twin, and I believe produces similar peak HP. Though, it revs a lot higher too, so hopefully the AT would be stronger in the mid-range.

I've never added an aftermarket exhaust and done a remap on a bike before, but I'm considering it with the AT as I can't help but feel there's more potential to be had out of a 1000cc engine. But I'm a bit nervous about it. For those who have done this sort of thing before, does it affect reliability or longevity of the engine? Does it tend to significantly reduce fuel economy?

 

[Paige]

Fair point Bill on including the weight in the calculation. Though, in that case the Triumph Tiger 800 could be interesting comparison, as it's significantly lighter than the DCT Africa Twin, and I believe produces similar peak HP. Though, it revs a lot higher too, so hopefully the AT would be stronger in the mid-range.

I've never added an aftermarket exhaust and done a remap on a bike before, but I'm considering it with the AT as I can't help but feel there's more potential to be had out of a 1000cc engine. But I'm a bit nervous about it. For those who have done this sort of thing before, does it affect reliability or longevity of the engine? Does it tend to significantly reduce fuel economy?

In terms of fuel economy it depends on what you're actually getting done. But for the most part performance costs something and it's usually gasoline.

 

[erey]

The full comparaison

http://www.moto-station.com/article17416-comparatif-africa-twin-vs-super-tenere-duel-de-legendes.html

The exaust is in 2 parts. The catalyc converter is not a separate piece.

 

[Paige]

 

[anotherbiker]

In terms of fuel economy it depends on what you're actually getting done. But for the most part performance costs something and it's usually gasoline.

I think if I could get 5-10hp more out of it without ruining reliability or fuel economy I'd be a happy boy. But then, I haven't ridden the bike yet so maybe when I do I won't feel like I need it.

I'll wait to see what people start doing for performance mods once there are more owners out there.

 

[marsbeetle]

I've never added an aftermarket exhaust and done a remap on a bike before, but I'm considering it with the AT as I can't help but feel there's more potential to be had out of a 1000cc engine. But I'm a bit nervous about it. For those who have done this sort of thing before, does it affect reliability or longevity of the engine? Does it tend to significantly reduce fuel economy?

As someone who has added an aftermarket exhaust to many of my previously owned motorcycles I can say the following:

Generally, I try to avoid a full system replacement because the cost outweighs the performance gains unless you are going racing. As soon as you change the headers on an exhaust system then you should(have to sometimes) look at changing the air/fuel ratio which means additional equipment and tuning. That is why I only mentioned weight and throttle response as the gains in my previous comment. To me they are significant enough and cost effective if you simply change the silencer and remove the catalytic converter. The engine will still run smoothly after this and you don't have to change the fuelling. I've always noticed better throttle response after this small change because the emissions standards tend to suck the life out of the engine and restrict the airflow. The added bonus is the sound :grin2:

You don't get more HP unless you go the whole route and do the fine tuning to match a new full system exhaust. Sometimes manufacturers like Ducati and KTM will offer a factory exhaust option that comes with a new fuel map but I don't see Honda going this route with the AT. It is still hellishly expensive though.

 

[rider_marc]

To get to 75lbs of torque on my C14 it takes an additional 1,000+ RPM. Torque tops out at just under 90lbs. Those two 500cc jugs are doing well for the AT!

 

[WIcrf1000]

I put 17k on a 2012 S10.

I now have 485 on a DCT.

Wind protection. AT, less buffeting.
General road handling. AT, I have had some sort of pivot just behind the headstock on the 10. Even with 21/18 that AT likes the twisties.
Power. S10, no comparison. The AT might be fooling you with the perfect linear torque curve tho.
Seat. AT. I got used the stock 10 seat and came to not mind it at all. The AT is a smidge softer and feels better with the AK sheepskin.
Ergos. AT fits me nice.
Brakes. S10 has a slight edge here. Possible because it has less travel so a lot less dive etc but also I liked the linked brakes. The AT is getting better as they bed in tho.
Susp. AT easily. The 10 felt sporty stiff and at time bumps upset the line. Maybe apples to oranges?
2-up. My wife said the seat on the AT might be a bit bigger and nicer shaped. Tie as of now.
Fit/Finish/overall design. S10 has a slight edge so far in my limited time working and riding on it.
Fuel consumption. AT, I'm already getting 47-48 on 2-lane. I expect that to be around 50 after a few thousand miles. Moving faster on the superslab it dropped to 45-ish.

edit: Engine heat. S10. I have yet to ride a bike with better engine heat control.
Ease of coming to a stop. AT, steering nice a light to easly drop one foot as you com to a stop. The S10 just felt reluctant.

The two areas the S10 wins in ease of maintenance with shaft drive and power. The rest is pretty much AT.

I reserve the right to change my mind as the miles rack up.

after 2k miles edit II: two-up my wife like the AT much better. I'm thinking the general size and shape help.

Brakes on the AT are pretty friken good. Tie as of now.

After 7+ hours planted in the saddle yesterday my ass started to complain about 5.5 to 6 hours in. I was using an Alaskan sheepskin as a buffer.

DCT is just so nice and easy. You don't realize how easy it makes riding the bike until you don't have to clutch and shift 500 times in one day.

 

[Q-Ball]

I took the S10 for a very long test ride before committing to the AT.
It really is a great bike and the only thing that stopped me is the age of the S10 and the amazing deal I got on my AT.
The S10 must be due a major update soon!
The model I took out had the electronically adjustable suspension which I was unsure about at the start and thought it's a gimmick,but I soon had to change my mind,it really is very useful and very noticeable. Also the shaft drive was a big selling point for me,but I'm also aware you loose also of power in a shaft drive system. The S10 is also suited better for road use over the AT due to it having a 19"front wheel and this was apparent on my test ride.
Comparing the power between the AT and the S10 was not as noticeable as I thought it might of been,yes the S10 seems to have more torque but it's 200cc bigger but outright acceleration seems very similar which I think will be due to the S10's bulk over the AT.

One thing I will say that could make people buy the S10 over the AT if they don't intend to do lots off road is the S10 has a very good cruise control system and the S10 I took out came standard with heated grips which unlike the items found on the AT actually work.
The S10 has a bigger fuel tank than the AT but it's also not as good on fuel as the AT so I guess total milage from a tank of fuel may be around the same on both bikes.

Makes me wonder why people buy BMW's GSA's over the Yam S10's,looking on the internet owners of S10's seem to have very little in the way of problems compared to the BMW's which seem to suffer all sorts of issues.
I'd rather have the S10 and have a spare £5k in my pocket iv just saved over the BMW.

The AT does make a decent road bike even though it's more suited to the rough stuff than black top,iv been very surprised with the handling of the AT and how well it goes around corners,yes it gets slightly flustered if pushed really hard but it's not built tear up corners.
Also that LED headlight is the best light iv ever used on a standard setup,the spread of light is fantastic on both dipped and main beam.
The display on the AT is nice and clear and iv yet to have issues in any condition reading it,one thing I think Honda could do is make the display screen anti-glare,as some times if the sun is behind you it can make it slightly harder to read.

 

[Djairouks]

I took the S10 for a very long test ride before committing to the AT.
It really is a great bike and the only thing that stopped me is the age of the S10 and the amazing deal I got on my AT.
The S10 must be due a major update soon!
The model I took out had the electronically adjustable suspension which I was unsure about at the start and thought it's a gimmick,but I soon had to change my mind,it really is very useful and very noticeable. Also the shaft drive was a big selling point for me,but I'm also aware you loose also of power in a shaft drive system. The S10 is also suited better for road use over the AT due to it having a 19"front wheel and this was apparent on my test ride.
Comparing the power between the AT and the S10 was not as noticeable as I thought it might of been,yes the S10 seems to have more torque but it's 200cc bigger but outright acceleration seems very similar which I think will be due to the S10's bulk over the AT.

One thing I will say that could make people buy the S10 over the AT if they don't intend to do lots off road is the S10 has a very good cruise control system and the S10 I took out came standard with heated grips which unlike the items found on the AT actually work.
The S10 has a bigger fuel tank than the AT but it's also not as good on fuel as the AT so I guess total milage from a tank of fuel may be around the same on both bikes.

Makes me wonder why people buy BMW's GSA's over the Yam S10's,looking on the internet owners of S10's seem to have very little in the way of problems compared to the BMW's which seem to suffer all sorts of issues.
I'd rather have the S10 and have a spare £5k in my pocket iv just saved over the BMW.

The AT does make a decent road bike even though it's more suited to the rough stuff than black top,iv been very surprised with the handling of the AT and how well it goes around corners,yes it gets slightly flustered if pushed really hard but it's not built tear up corners.
Also that LED headlight is the best light iv ever used on a standard setup,the spread of light is fantastic on both dipped and main beam.
The display on the AT is nice and clear and iv yet to have issues in any condition reading it,one thing I think Honda could do is make the display screen anti-glare,as some times if the sun is behind you it can make it slightly harder to read.

Let me tell you I also wonder the same, my Yamaha mechanic and friend owns an XT1200 and he said it's extremelly reliable he's around 30K KM, when he did the big service, everything was flawless so I'll never understand the BMW interest. He said that's what you get with japanese, rock solid reliability !
I have owned only Yamahas since my now 10 years of riding, a XJ6 to pass my license, then a glorious white FZ8 and last was a blue MT-09 that I really loved, but felt I would kill myself without electronics on it and the not so good brakes and suspension !

So it kind of annoyed me not finding what I wanted in Yamahas, The Tracer 900 is not comfy and electronics are meh too much like the MT, he made me try his Tenere but I was pretty affraid of it's huge weight, so though the engine was fun I just didn't feel too good riding this monster.
For my brand loyalty and loving the Yamaha finish and ergonomics, I didn't want to love the Honda, but really I feel so at home on it that it was a no brainer, there was no way i wouldn't buy it, so take that from a Yam lover the AT is that good !


Then to the power argument I'd say this, I always give a look at the Akrapovic website, they test stock against their exhaust and give the curves. Even if you argue their tests might not be so accurate, logic would say you can still compare motorcycles, the tests being made by the same people and setup.

Look at those 2 curves, really the power is eaten by the drive shaft on the Tenere, theory says a drive shaft can diminish engine power by 15-20%, that's rougly the case here and the power then is pretty matched with the Honda, but the AT is still lighter than the Yamaha !

 

[Q-Ball]

Let me tell you I also wonder the same, my Yamaha mechanic and friend owns an XT1200 and he said it's extremelly reliable he's around 30K KM, when he did the big service, everything was flawless so I'll never understand the BMW interest. He said that's what you get with japanese, rock solid reliability !
I have owned only Yamahas since my now 10 years of riding, a XJ6 to pass my license, then a glorious white FZ8 and last was a blue MT-09 that I really loved, but felt I would kill myself without electronics on it and the not so good brakes and suspension !

So it kind of annoyed me not finding what I wanted in Yamahas, The Tracer 900 is not comfy and electronics are meh too much like the MT, he made me try his Tenere but I was pretty affraid of it's huge weight, so though the engine was fun I just didn't feel too good riding this monster.
For my brand loyalty and loving the Yamaha finish and ergonomics, I didn't want to love the Honda, but really I feel so at home on it that it was a no brainer, there was no way i wouldn't buy it, so take that from a Yam lover the AT is that good !


Then to the power argument I'd say this, I always give a look at the Akrapovic website, they test stock against their exhaust and give the curves. Even if you argue their tests might not be so accurate, logic would say you can still compare motorcycles, the tests being made by the same people and setup.

Look at those 2 curves, really the power is eaten by the drive shaft on the Tenere, theory says a drive shaft can diminish engine power by 15-20%, that's rougly the case here and the power then is pretty matched with the Honda, but the AT is still lighter than the Yamaha !

The only reason I chose the AT over the S10 was the AT is bang up to date and I got a fantastic deal on it. I personally thought the S10 handled its weight very well indeed,but it's been around in its current shape for many years now and must be due a update sooner or later.
I love my AT but do feel like Yamaha have the edge over the rest of the Japanese makers in regards to build quality and finish. Feel like Honda have slipped over the last decade.
They dropped the Blackbird and replaced it with the VFR1200 which is over priced and has had many niggles,the ST1300 Pan is in the bible I think and the current Goldwing GL1800 has been around in its current form since 2001!!!!!! Back then it cost around £17000 now it's close to £25k why would you pay £8k more for a 16 year old design which hasn't had any significant overall.
There still selling the CB1000R which has been in production since 2006 and cost nearly as much as a Yam MT-10,I know which I'd buy!

Maybe Honda are changing there ways,they have some better models in there line up now,they have dusted off the AT name and that's doing well,the NC line up is popular with the commuters,the MSX 125(Grom) is a amazing little bike,and the new off road super scoot thing the X-ADV looks **** cool but cost nearly as much as a new AT,not sure if the market needs a off road scooter but Honda are about to find out. I'd have one as it looks different but not sure I'd pay £9600 for one.
The new Blades look very nice especially the SP-2

 

[Djairouks]

The only reason I chose the AT over the S10 was the AT is bang up to date and I got a fantastic deal on it. I personally thought the S10 handled its weight very well indeed,but it's been around in its current shape for many years now and must be due a update sooner or later.
I love my AT but do feel like Yamaha have the edge over the rest of the Japanese makers in regards to build quality and finish. Feel like Honda have slipped over the last decade.
They dropped the Blackbird and replaced it with the VFR1200 which is over priced and has had many niggles,the ST1300 Pan is in the bible I think and the current Goldwing GL1800 has been around in its current form since 2001!!!!!! Back then it cost around £17000 now it's close to £25k why would you pay £8k more for a 16 year old design which hasn't had any significant overall.
There still selling the CB1000R which has been in production since 2006 and cost nearly as much as a Yam MT-10,I know which I'd buy!

Maybe Honda are changing there ways,they have some better models in there line up now,they have dusted off the AT name and that's doing well,the NC line up is popular with the commuters,the MSX 125(Grom) is a amazing little bike,and the new off road super scoot thing the X-ADV looks **** cool but cost nearly as much as a new AT,not sure if the market needs a off road scooter but Honda are about to find out. I'd have one as it looks different but not sure I'd pay £9600 for one.
The new Blades look very nice especially the SP-2

Well it could be because, if I'm not mistaken only Yamaha stil manufactures in Japan, the hondas for europe are made in Italy, so maybe the materials and quality are less than the japanese would do !

Though I'm not really convinced, My MT-09 was well put together, but I still think the AT has a slight edge and I wasn't really impressed by the Tenere in this aspect either. The Tracer 900's plastics don't feel better or more adjusted than the Honda, tastes and colours as we say, I find it on par mostly but the Honda details are less crude to me !

 

[Q-Ball]

Well it could be because, if I'm not mistaken only Yamaha stil manufactures in Japan, the hondas for europe are made in Italy, so maybe the materials and quality are less than the japanese would do !

Though I'm not really convinced, My MT-09 was well put together, but I still think the AT has a slight edge and I wasn't really impressed by the Tenere in this aspect either. The Tracer 900's plastics don't feel better or more adjusted than the Honda, tastes and colours as we say, I find it on par mostly but the Honda details are less crude to me !

The only fault I can find with the AT as far as visual build quality issues are the front of the engine cases behind the headers,on mine and others iv seen they seem very roughly finished,but this is just been fussy,but all the same it is a visual part of the bike.

One thing I think Yamaha are better at than any other manufacturer is making part bin specials and doing it well.