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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After almost 50 years motorcycling I find that I need more basic info on rims / tyres !
In a few weeks time I will take delivery of an Africa Twin Adventure Sport 2018.
After reading this forum I realised that I didn't like the prospect of removing wheels to fix punctures in the ATs inner tubes. All of my previous bikes (last 20 years at least) have been tubeless. So no matter how I achieve it I need to get rid of inner tubes (100% tarmac rider)
I have trawled this forum and I now have a wealth of info but its like some of the words are missing, or not in the right order - so here goes with my very basic questions:
1. The so called hump that is supposed to exist on tubeless rims - what does it do ? Does it prevent the tyre moving away from the rim wall on deflation. Or does it hold the tyre near the rim wall to help get a seal established on inflation.
2. Why does this hump exist on the AT rear wheel but not on the front - and why on the rear anyway if it is a tubed rim.
3. What is the difference between a tubeless tyre and a tubed tyre. I know that the former needs to seal against the rim but is it constructed differently ie does the bead look different
4. If I go for the spoke sealing option (ie Outex) and I go for tubeless tyres do I assume that all will be well with the standard rear rim with its hump, but the front may be less stable if I get a puncture (no rim hump)
5. When people swap their OEM tyres for others (on stock rims) do they fit tubeless tyres (greater selection) with a tube, or tubed tyres with a tube.
Oh that's enough for now !!. Mind the ATA is a bonny bike despite its inner tubes.
 

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Hi BigKev, I’ll be in the same position as you (just done the deal on a ATAS :grin2:), I’d like to go tubeless too. Sadly, short of spending about £1800 on Alpina’s, there’s no definitive answer to what safe. Yes people have done the outex conversion, or some other similar job, but the front rim is the problem, as you say, it doesn’t have the ridges to keep the tyre on the rim if it deflates.

I spoke to a guy from central wheels at the bike show in November and he said they have just started fitting the outex kits and they are doing the Italian tubeless conversion, which I think he said was £300 for front and back (they send your wheel to Italy and the wheels are checked for trueness etc and the sealed and returned) but I seem to remember him saying the front can’t be done because it’s too narrow, although l believe the outex kit isn’t a problem for the narrow front.

What would be great would be if a wider front rim with the ridges could be sourced, in the gold colour to match the rear, or sourcing new front and rear rims that have the ridges.

Tubeless tyres have a stiffer side wall and run cooler than tubed tyres.
 

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Hi!
Regarding HUMP | Source Wikipedia: Modern passenger vehicles and tubeless tires typically use one-piece rims with a "safety" rim profile. The safety feature helps keep the tire bead held to the rim under adverse conditions by having a pair of safety humps extending inwardly of the rim toward the other tire bead seat from an outer contoured surface of the rim.[2]

Why only on rear rim - I guess only Honda would no for sure (maybe it was available at the time the AT was starting production from a different bike from the past to save development cost).

Most of modern tires are TL/TT approved. That's all information I could offer at the moment.

By the fact I'M dealing with the same approach right know it would be great if all of you could share further infos on this. Thank you, gerhard
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies chaps.
I wonder if the reason why the front wheel has no hump is that the rim is so narrow. The part of the rim where the bead sits could well be so narrow that a hump would leave insufficient room for the bead - or make it rather difficult to remove and replace the tyre.
The Alpina wheels do look very nice and would cost £1600 in the UK. They do so many colour combinations you could certainly have one very bling AT. I do however worry that all those O ring seals would eventually cause leakage.
The Outex system looks like it would work but I have not found a UK supplier. The Outex website indicates that there is a specific package for the AT and costs about £130 - a lot for sticky tape ! I do hope I like the ATAS as I havnt even seen one ! My R1200RT was sold last week, so no turning back now.
 

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@BigKev https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OUTEX-Cl...220354?hash=item2a9af2a7c2:g:kSkAAOSw-wJaRjfr

but you will get charged customs duty as well when it arrives

I have discovered the tape to use is 38mm wide for the front and 50mm for the rear and you will need 2 x valves to DIY them without buying Outex stuff

3M tape https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/adhe...d-dimensions=4294850633,4293571862,4291809241

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Extreme-Sealing-4412-N3816-4412/dp/B015ZMNN3S


this sounds dear but you get about 17 meters on the roll (available from 21/01/18)

My wheels have been dropped off at the dealers for another warranty job of spokes so i have in effect 'lost' the tape i bought from outex last year (but i saved the valves) so i am going the 3M diy route when i get my new wheels from Honda.

I have in fact bought a 5M roll of the 4411 38mm wide stuff from Amazon because the 25mm stuff on RS components website isn't wide enough really for the front rim

Note: 3M 4411 extreme tape is 1mm thick and 3M 4412 extreme tape is 2mm thick

Ian UK
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Scotsy - Thanks for the info. So when you went for Outex I presume you fitted Tubeless tyres and were they OK on the OEM rims. No leakage either ?
 

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Hi!

As far as I know Outex covers each spoke inside the rim before putting the tape itself into (as within this video:
). So the spokes are not glued to the tape in case of tension adjustment from the outside.

How did you handle this when buying your own tape?

Next I would really be interesting in: Who is running a tubeless solution on the standard Honda rims (no hump on the front), for how long in real live and did you encounter any problems so far (loss of pressure, tire movement on the rim or similar)?

My idea is to keep the rear rim and try to get a similar looking one with a hump for the front, re-spoke it and then put a tubeless solution into both.

Thank you and many greetings, gerhard
 

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Thanks for the replies chaps.
I wonder if the reason why the front wheel has no hump is that the rim is so narrow. The part of the rim where the bead sits could well be so narrow that a hump would leave insufficient room for the bead - or make it rather difficult to remove and replace the tyre.
The Alpina wheels do look very nice and would cost £1600 in the UK. They do so many colour combinations you could certainly have one very bling AT. I do however worry that all those O ring seals would eventually cause leakage.
The Outex system looks like it would work but I have not found a UK supplier. The Outex website indicates that there is a specific package for the AT and costs about £130 - a lot for sticky tape ! I do hope I like the ATAS as I havnt even seen one ! My R1200RT was sold last week, so no turning back now.
Central wheels (Birmingham) do the outex conversion.
 

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I Am also very interested in this thread, as I want tubeless on my ATAS when I get it. I’d love the Alpina option, but I’m struggling to justify the price of these wheels.

I think the Outex route is probably the best value for money. I believe here in the uk, central wheels are doing this conversion, so if you don’t feel comfortable doing it yourself, then give them a call, as they probably guarantee their work.

Question I have for those who may have a better understanding, if you had two identical AT’s, both with standard wheels, one had standard tubed tyres and tubes and the other had standard wheels, but with the Outex tubeless conversion, with tubeless tyres.

What would be the scenario, if both got a front wheel puncture at say 50 mph? As they both have the original front rim, that doesn’t have the raise bump used for tubeless tyres, would they both have the same reaction, or would one fair better than the other?

The other thing, 2017 KTM1090 and 1290 Adventures, run with the 21” spoke front wheels and tubeless tyres, I wonder what their front rim looks like, if it has the tublesss raised bumps or not. Maybe a KTM rider could answer this for us?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Alpina

I have looked at the Alpina website and blown up the pics of the tubeless wheels for the Africa Twin.
Both front and rear look the same with regard to the bead seating area 'hump' . Neither rim has a hump as such, instead they have a raised area that is flat topped. Hard to say what size but say 3 mm high and 8 mm wide at a guess, so a hump with a flat top and vertical sides !
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hump

Ignore post 13. I have had another closer look at the Alpina wheels and both front and rear have a small hump at the inside edge of the flat bead seating area. This is as you would expect, ie prevents the tyre wall moving in towards the wheel centre during a deflation hence maintaining stability till you come to a stop
 
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