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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, Like other people reading posts on this forum I love all things Honda and in particular the Africa Twin which I think is a cracking bike.
However, having purchased the bike new in mid September but unable to ride due an unfortunate rear end shunt whilst driving the car, My AT stayed in the garage until I built myself back up to be able to tolerate the ride. Hence the bike is still new only having 400 miles on the clock

Imagine my disappointment when cleaning the bike for the first time I found badly cast and over-painted engine casings. To say I was disappointed was an under statement. The story gets worse but needless to say Honda have agreed to sort the matter out giving me the option of new parts or having the existing ones re sprayed. replacing the casings means dropping the DCT engine and splitting it before replacing the scabby bits.

I don't want to make this post a pop at Honda or the supplying dealer but would just like to know what peoples views are on the issue and whether or not my expectations of Honda and the dealer for letting it slip through are too high. If this was your bike what would you expect from Honda. ( I have accepted a resolution which involves replacing parts but... well i'm still miffed about spending all that money and finding such shoddy finishes)

As you will see in one of the photos the metal is pot marked and pitted, one of the edges looks like it has been chewed on and painted over. Some of the over painted filings contaminating the engine casing have come through the paint and could possible lead to longer term more serious issues had Honda not be sorting the issue out
 

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Is it a big deal, maybe, to some. Will it diminish your riding joy, again, maybe for some people. It is acceptable, hardly. If the paint were bubbling or plastics warped you would likely get more support. To me the whole package is art. If a manufacturer can't get it right, just tell me in the brochure not to expect a first class product or chill if there are imperfections; see how fast I find a different manufacturer.

It may end up being more trouble than it's worth. I'm still trying to get a replacement front brake line after mine was installed with a kink from the factory. Since my problem is cheap to fix, I'll likely not bother with the warranty, sad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You are right it is both poor from Honda and important for me not to let the experience diminish my riding joy. The frustrating thing is that when I contacted Honda they said if I had reported the fault within 30 days of registration I could have rejected the bike. Unfortunately, my unfortunate incident in the car meant the bike sat until I was fit to ride and that's when I found the faults which were clearly there from factory to dealer.

When I pointed this out to Honda customer care Uk, I was advised it is my responsibility to check the bike for defects and report them within the 30 days and as I hadn't done this my right to reject the back had passed. A lesson learned.

Even though we buy brand new from premium manufacturers the onus is on the bloke left with the keys in his hands to make sure he's getting what he's been promised in the condition a brand new bike should be presented in.
 

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That's absolute BS! Thirty days to find some odd behavior is one thing, but clearly this is a factory flaw and they accuse you of not inspecting the bike quickly enough?! We pay good money for the manufacturer to inspect the bike, there should not be any time limit on discovering a manufacturing defect, period!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Exactly my point. Basically I have been told that because I didn't inspect the bike properly at the time of accepting delivery Honda can wriggle out of the 30 day rejection even though the parts were defective and not only passed through Honda's quality control but the dealers pre delivery inspections, below is the response from Honda Europe customer services re the 30 day issue

"As discussed on the phone when you took delivery of your Bike you would have been asked to check Bike over and make sure you are happy with the condition of the Bike."

I pointed out that had i been buying a used bike from a non franchised dealer I might have taken a little more time to inspect the bike but in all honesty I was suffering with a back and neck injury and getting on my knees to inspect the engine casings wasn't actually something I felt necessary.

So there we go - Honda can put crappy parts on their bikes, push them out the factory, then the dealers can turn a blind eye and the poor old bloke who puts his hard earned cash down is left with a kick in the pants because Honda protect themselves with a 30 day no rejection policy even though the issue was clearly there from the beginning.

I'll let you make your own mind up but my advice is don't trust Honda and as nice as the dealers are don't trust them either. Bottom line i've been had over
 

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My 2017 has an early VIN and has similar rough case casting but I am not going to make a fuss as I do not believe it has any impact on the integrity of the cases. Crankcase replacement would mean major surgery that
i fear would result in real problems.
Anyway, I remember when Triumph sand cast cases were so pourous that they sometimes oozed oil.
 

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Unfortunately it is not Honda UK who is to blame for 30-day rejection period. It is the law here i.e Consumer Rights Act 2015.

30-days rejection period means that within this time frame you can return the bike and get full refund. That is gone.

So after 30 days you have the right to repair or replace the bike (but not a refund). You can state your preference, but the retailer can normally choose whichever would be cheapest or easier for it to do. But if an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, then you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product.

Have a read here:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i suppose the issue for me is the frustration of being papped with sub standard parts and both the dealer and Honda know that if they offer the major surgery then they are doing what is perhaps expected. Those faults would have been seen both in the factory and by the dealer. It makes me wonder what else we unwittingly inherit.

I just feel that it's the tricks of dodgy car dealers who sneak the problem onto the consumer and sit there pretty smug

I must admit there's an element of dishonesty about it. It's like knowingly doing something that isn't right and falling back on an apology when caught out and hoping that people will not challenge them That's obviously cheaper for them than sorting it out in the first place

Those apologies are worthless - I'm taking the surgery - Time will tell what other issues that might cause - Shame on Honda If I knew how to get this out to more people I would because I think people need to know what they are buying into and not fall foul as I have done.

Sorry your bike isn't as you had hoped and has poor finishings on the casings
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank You Radarman that was really informative. Unfortunately, due to being injured and not riding, I never spotted the defects until I eventually wheeled the bike out the garage and felt well enough to have a real good look around.

I suppose that's what makes it feel even worse. My bike has been sold to me and someone at the factory and certainly at the dealers would have seen the issues. This legislation has given the manufactures and dealers the opportunity to act unfairly and supply faulty goods with protection if the consumer is not on top of their game within the first 30 days of ownership.

If I'm being honest, It makes both Honda and the dealer look dishonest. I think certain cases meet exceptional circumstances and my case certainly feels like the dealers and Honda have pulled a fast one
 

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I think that is down to lazy production line inspection. You would have to feel a little let down that Honda felt it was acceptable for the bike to leave the line in that condition given their reputation. You either truly believe in your company’s commitment to quality or just pay lip service to it. I can understand the dealer’s reaction; he can only represent your case to the manufacturer and cannot take a hit on his own if there is no commitment from Honda. A lesson for all, I have my eye on another Honda, it will get a very good look over!
 

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My 2017 has an early VIN and has similar rough case casting but I am not going to make a fuss as I do not believe it has any impact on the integrity of the cases. Crankcase replacement would mean major surgery that
i fear would result in real problems.
.
Exactly the same for me.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just an update - Dealer has been very helpful, in fact I feel a bit bad about the post but It's Honda that have pulled a fast one with the shoddy engine casings. Whilst at the dealers I managed to look at the engine casings of at least 3 other 2017 DCT engine casings on CRF1000L.

It appears that they are all the same and Honda have a batch of scruffy looking engine casings on the 2017 DCT model. It doesn't seem to affect the manual........ Could this recent price reduction on the 2017 DCT CRF1000l be something to do with build quality........Hmmmmmm

I know it seems a bit like over kill but I don't like big companies that build customer loyalty on build quality abusing that loyalty by sneaking rogue quality parts onto our bikes but I want my bike to be as expected and promised.

New engine casings are on order with a delivery date of Feb 2018. The cost to replace including labour is around £4500. Perhaps if those of us that have had the poor quality parts demanded the same then Honda might regret stiffing us in the first place.

The staff at the dealership have been brilliant and I think there's perhaps an element of embarrassment and disappointment on their behalf as well. Remember when buying your new Honda's to check ya bits as once it's yours it's a right job to get what you should have had first time around.
 

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quote- "It doesn't seem to affect the manual........ Could this recent price reduction on the 2017 DCT CRF1000l be something to do with build quality........Hmmmmmm"



My 2017 manual has rough castings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That puts that thought to bed then.

I'd be interested in knowing if you are going to have the castings swapped or re-painted
 

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As it has been said here in another post, defects happen, that's not the main issue, rahter it's how the company deals with those issues and treats legitimate complaints from the customer.

I remember in the movie Fight Club the story of how auto manufacturers allowed deadly defects to remain if the cost of recalls outweighs the cost of lawsuits, while this is likely fiction, it might not be and it's at least plausible that many companies might ignore a legit consumer complain't because who cares as they are one of thousands or millions. This goes back to my first statement about how a company treats it's customers being so important.

Some people are unreasonable to be sure, but that should be decided on a case by case basis. Usually you can just buy people off with a rebate or future discount, my brother used to do it in his job, it's not so hard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I suppose Honda have partly bought me off in that they have upgraded the EU warranty for a third year at no cost to me (usually £350 ) and are replacing the scabby bits.

I'm no techie but once I had an aluminium head on a car that went porous and started leaking oil. Turned out to be the same thing which was a poor casting. The car was 3 years old and had 60k miles but Ford were really good about it and replaced the head for free.

My concerns are that looking at the way some of the castings have started to peel and degrade that in time the defects will become Porous as the head on the car did.

I'm not clued up enough to know if this is something that could go the same way or I'm just been over sensitive because I've bought something that isn't up to standard.

The head technician at my local Honda dealer seems to think that the problem would have been inside the mould the casings were cast from and as such unless the new casings come from a different mould they will be the same.

I'd like to know your thoughts on whether or not to have the new casings or live with the scabby ones. Splitting the engine does seem like a big deal that might end up causing more issues.........
 

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I'd like to know your thoughts on whether or not to have the new casings or live with the scabby ones. Splitting the engine does seem like a big deal that might end up causing more issues.........
What a flaming pile of dog business! Should I live with defective workmanship because a repair will likely cause even more issues, WTF! How did we as comsumers end up here, accepting substandard workmanship as "just part of the game".
I want a new bike, in new condition, anything less in unacceptable and should be returned or replaced, PERIOD!

This isn't specific to Honda or motorcycles, but something we just seem to tolerate for some reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks Niterunnr I was beginning to wonder if my expectations were too high.

I love fuelpinchers ability to be able to just get on with enjoying the bike for the very reason we all buy them in the first place and yes we will all end up covering those crappy cases in mud but why sell me out at top dollar and palm me off with something that's not to standard.

It's about making a stand because if we accept crappy crank cases, it won't be long before we see poor build quality as acceptable and the standards Honda spout will not represent the bikes they turn out...... then to be told because I didn't spot it within 30 days really P's me off because that's really rubbing it in your face. ( I.e. Honda have taken a chance that we as consumers will accept the poor quality castings or if we complain fall back on consumer legislation to force us into accepting poor quality because ultimately for every 100 bikes that don't come back to be put right, they save just shy of half a million quid. )

I'll let you know how it pans out but for now I'm waiting for the parts to land... to be continued.....
 
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