[JustPlainBill0]

No longer a dirt bike rider (too old and decrepit) , but still up on two wheels -- the CRF1000L DCT looks to be the answer to my prayers. My current favorite ride is a '13 NC700X DCT - to which I have added a Honda accessory foot shift lever kit. After tweaking the suspension, my one remaining issue with the NC700X is the shortage of horsepower for highway passing. The 2016 Africa Twin should handle that problem nicely and I wont have to give up the DCT.

 

[Paige]

No longer a dirt bike rider (too old and decrepit) , but still up on two wheels -- the CRF1000L DCT looks to be the answer to my prayers. My current favorite ride is a '13 NC700X DCT - to which I have added a Honda accessory foot shift lever kit. After tweaking the suspension, my one remaining issue with the NC700X is the shortage of horsepower for highway passing. The 2016 Africa Twin should handle that problem nicely and I wont have to give up the DCT.

Hey welcome to the site, glad to have you! We've got a few inmates already.

How do you find Honda's DCT, I've never tried but heard good things?

 

[JustPlainBill0]

Hey welcome to the site, glad to have you! We've got a few inmates already.

How do you find Honda's DCT, I've never tried but heard good things?

I'm not one of those have to be first guy on the block with (fill in the blank) but I am getting to an age where riding safely is more important than riding for thrills. So for me, the dual clutch transmission is fantastic. I started out thinking that not having to devote attention to shifting allowed me time to focus on the road, the ride, the hazards and enjoy the ride more while being safer. As a senior rider, those are valuable considerations (probably for beginning riders too) that are justification enough for having DCT.

But eventually using DCT became entertaining in it's own right. Depending on the road, the conditions, my mood and who I'm riding with, I may leave it in no-brainer D(drive with super quick up shifts for fuel economy), switch between D and S (sport - where the computer shift points are like normal riding shifts) and mix it up with manual shift intervention as needed. Or I might stick it in M(anual) where I control all the shift points. Also, because I couldn't get used to using handlebar mounted paddle shifters, I installed Honda's accessory foot shift lever kit to take advantage of 50 plus years of muscle memory and let my foot do it's thing. Much more fun too.

But automatic transmissions on motorcycles are not for everyone. I've invited a few gnarly old rider friends to try my bike out and after a short ride, they all say DCT is "interesting". Damned with faint praise, I'd say. But if you can't take a test ride on a DCT equipped bike and buy one anyway, I think that as long as you are willing to work with the system and make it "yours", you will love it. Cop an attitude about how automatic transmissions aren't manly and you'll hate it. (Yeah, there's a lot of machismo involved in motorcycle riding that can get in the way of a person's enjoyment.)

Bill

 

[rider_marc]

I am open to the DCT adventure. Probably won't decide until the moment in the dealer.


I've had DCT experience with a G37S coupe (2008-2011). My Nissan Frontier is a 6-speed manual and that makes the truck a hoot to drive. So, with DCT G37S and the paddle shifters, there is an interaction missing from traditional shifting. The G37S resembles a video game controller and, that could be described as interesting-but, probably pretty-cool is better.


Does your DCT NC700X auto-blip the throttle when you are in manual mode and perform a down-shift?

 

[JustPlainBill0]

I don't think you'll find many parallels between the Infiniti dual clutch and Honda's version (which is Gen 2) for motorcycles. The computer is pretty much limited to selecting, then changing to the next gear according to RPM and depending on mode - or manual input from the rider. It's supposed to learn as you use it and match it's choices to rider's preferences. I think that's true - at least it seems to upshift later now that it first did in "D" mode. Shifts, either way, are smooth - without blipping the throttle on the way down. I don't know how that works, maybe it's just inherent in dual clutch system. If you carry a passenger you can forget about banging helmets.

Programming for AT and Pioneer DCT (Gen 3) is said to be more sophisticated and will use incline sensors to handle up and downhill sections by holding a gear longer as needed. But with a foot shift lever and picking manual mode, you might not even need that feature. I'd opt to use manual in rough terrain -- at least until I was confident about the DCT.

It's going to be interesting to see where and how the CRF-AT's are tested off-road by moto mag guys and what kinds of conclusions they reach between manual and DCT versions -- and other manufacturer's offerings. For me, the only advantage DCT has over a non-DCT bike in the dirt, is not having to use the clutch lever in some conditions. Downside is the extra weight of the DCT system. But on-road, DCT is my only choice.

 

[rider_marc]

Since my G37S was a daily driver for the ex, it short-shifted all the time as G-coupe was babied. It was not a runner for me in automatic mode. During the same time, I rented a 370Z that ripped and chirped the tires following the first two upshifts along with illumination of the tire slip light. I believe both vehicles learned their drivers. The G-coupe in manual mode had a shift that was smoother than the 370Z. Different tuning? Not sure, but I liked the 370Z better.


Throttle auto-blip for rev matching has to be there for any DCT. If not, there is clutch slip during downshifts, right? This blip is more pronounced at higher engine rpm's.

It is interesting to hear that with the NC700X dual clutch, the shifts won't have rider and passenger banging helmets. While that is good for the NC, we all need to hear how the AT's DCT shifting will perform. We need to know the AT's performance demeanor. The video from Honda is a good indication, but what is actually shipped is what matters.

 

[JustPlainBill0]

Throttle auto-blip for rev matching has to be there for any DCT. If not, there is clutch slip during downshifts, right? This blip is more pronounced at higher engine rpm's.

.

You got me thinking about DCT clutch slip Marc -- and it's something I hadn't considered, so I took the NC700 out for fuel this AM and had it down shift normally, manually and in both modes - and couldn't tell why the down shifts were smooth. I could feel some but not all the transitions - and none were as bad as my R1150R on a good day. That wasn't very helpful.


But it's obvious there is clutch slippage when the bike is idling in gear and the computer releases the clutch to engage 1st gear as you bring the RPM up, and the computer controls the rate at which the clutch is engaged to keep you from lurching forward. To see how much or how little control the computer has over the clutch, I brought the NC halfway up my driveway (about a 10* grade), in 1st gear brought the RPM up to where I could feel the clutch begin to engage, released the hand brake and let the clutch find a point where it held the bike in place on the hill. At about 1200 RPM is was rock steady - no creeping forward or slipping backward. And it could have done it all day long (or until the fiber plates burned up).


My best guess (conclusion) from this test is that the computer permits clutch slippage on down shifts by matching the rate it declutches the higher gear to the rate it releases the clutch engaging the next gear for a smooth transition. The computer knows the bike's speed, next gear to select, engine RPM and calculates the release/engage rates to suit those conditions. So blipping isn't needed. Maybe rev-matching for cars with DCT is to make the drivers smile about how cool it is.... >

 

[rider_marc]

Good info regarding the clutch engagement from a stop.


Thanks for posting the test results.


For sure about the rev-match smiles generated from the sound of the VQ37 engine. It is something to experience.

 

[JustPlainBill0]

For sure about the rev-match smiles generated from the sound of the VQ37 engine. It is something to experience.

Have a listen to this BMW R1200GS with Shift Assist Pro https://youtu.be/XjYYLk_OyIw on his downshifts to hear why blipping isn't quite as much fun as a VQ37 . (The Beemer system does auto-blip on down shifts.)

 

[rider_marc]

Nice! I have no experience with shift assist, but it does sound to be right on and precise. I could hear the rapid blips for the downshifts. Sounds like a great system!


Haven't seen enough photos to determine if this GS has a throttle with wire or cables. My guess is that there are no cables for the shift assist to work as we previously chatted.

 

[hojo]

Have a listen to this BMW R1200GS with Shift Assist Pro https://youtu.be/XjYYLk_OyIw on his downshifts to hear why blipping isn't quite as much fun as a VQ37 . (The Beemer system does auto-blip on down shifts.)

I too have an NC700 DCT and after listening to the Beemer's Shift Assist, I'm not sure how that is any better than shifting without the shift assist, it still sounds pretty clunky to me.