[bietzarelli]

2020 ATAS DCT - is a jump start safe?

Seems like I read you can't bump-start a DCT. So, I bought a "Touring Items Type S" 12v jump starter from Costco, hoping I could I use it to jump my AT in a pinch. The charger is a Li-Ion battery pack with up to 8000mAh capacity, start current is 200-350A, according to the specs.

From the Honda AT Manual-
Battery: 12v-6Ah (20HR); Li-ion chemistry (I think), same as the jump starter.

Also from the Honda AT Manual-
Do not jump start as this can damage your vehicle's electrical system and battery.
Also; "Bump start not recommended." (Can the AT w/DCT be bump started??)

What's a guy stranded in the wood to do?

 

[DoubleThumper]

Yeah, in regards to jump starting any battery, similar (or not) applicable chemistries is not relevant. As you indicated, more importantly is the possible inrush surge that could shutdown (or roast) the onboard battery management circuitry and possibly the motorcycle electronics - I reckon if the ignition is already on. Otherwise, it is difficult to see the problem if the said is avoided.

RE bump start DCT: The DCT controller gets in the way. If Honda engineers can design their way around this disadvantage, I am sure curious Honda AT onlookers will latch on to it.

A stranded AT rider could consider a boost, provided the onboard battery is not shorted and the ignition is off prior to connecting the external source. If the boost source is a large vehicle (e.g. a cage), then its engine should be off.

Welcome to the Forum @bietzarelli.

Feel free to introduce yourself at the New Member Introductions area of the Forum.

 

[bietzarelli]

Yeah, in regards to jump starting any battery, similar (or not) applicable chemistries is not relevant. As you indicated, more importantly is the possible inrush surge that could shutdown (or roast) the onboard battery management circuitry and possibly the motorcycle electronics - I reckon if the ignition is already on. Otherwise, it is difficult to see the problem if the said is avoided.

RE bump start DCT: The DCT controller gets in the way. If Honda engineers can design their way around this disadvantage, I am sure curious Honda AT onlookers will latch on to it.

A stranded AT rider could consider a boost, provided the onboard battery is not shorted and the ignition is off prior to connecting the external source. If the boost source is a large vehicle (e.g. a cage), then its engine should be off.

Welcome to the Forum @bietzarelli.

Feel free to introduce yourself at the New Member Introductions area of the Forum.

Thanks for the reply. I've never used a jump pack, much less on a moto. Admittedly, I have a fundamental understanding of electronics at best. I was worried more about "too much" power frying something as the jump packs are intended for larger 4-8 cylinder engine electrical systems.

 

[Bill J]

2020 ATAS DCT - is a jump start safe?

Seems like I read you can't bump-start a DCT. So, I bought a "Touring Items Type S" 12v jump starter from Costco, hoping I could I use it to jump my AT in a pinch. The charger is a Li-Ion battery pack with up to 8000mAh capacity, start current is 200-350A, according to the specs.

From the Honda AT Manual-
Battery: 12v-6Ah (20HR); Li-ion chemistry (I think), same as the jump starter.

Also from the Honda AT Manual-
Do not jump start as this can damage your vehicle's electrical system and battery.
Also; "Bump start not recommended." (Can the AT w/DCT be bump started??)

What's a guy stranded in the wood to do?

The way the DCT is set up there is no way to bump start. As for boosting, it can be done but make sure everything is done correctly. The battery pack you described should not be a problem. Switches should be off when making your connections and turn the bike's switch on as per normal start procedure. If boosting from another vehicle leave the other vehicle's engine turned off as others have mentioned. You do not need a surge to the battery or the electronics. The battery is expensive and the electronics probably more so. The battery is buried in the bike behind the tool box. If you don't already have one, I would suggest you install an SAE battery tender style connector on the side of the bike with a fused harness directly to the battery. Keep an adaptor connector(s) handy for boosting.

 

[bietzarelli]

The way the DCT is set up there is no way to bump start. As for boosting, it can be done but make sure everything is done correctly. The battery pack you described should not be a problem. Switches should be off when making your connections and turn the bike's switch on as per normal start procedure. If boosting from another vehicle leave the other vehicle's engine turned off as others have mentioned. You do not need a surge to the battery or the electronics. The battery is expensive and the electronics probably more so. The battery is buried in the bike behind the tool box. If you don't already have one, I would suggest you install an SAE battery tender style connector on the side of the bike with a fused harness directly to the battery. Keep an adaptor connector(s) handy for boosting.

I have a SAE battery tender style connector already in place. I have spare tender cables that would connect to the already wired battery tender cable under my seat. They terminate in copper leads (o-rings). I wondered if i can just use the extra cable to avoid pulling the tool box to get to the battery. The jump start battery cable has alligator clips I could attach to the copper o-rings on the extension cord. I read in another post, however, the gauge of the tender cables may be to small for a jump start and overheat. I can see the jump start cables are thicker than the battery tender cable.

 

[Bill J]

I have a SAE battery tender style connector already in place. I have spare tender cables that would connect to the already wired battery tender cable under my seat. They terminate in copper leads (o-rings). I wondered if i can just use the extra cable to avoid pulling the tool box to get to the battery. The jump start battery cable has alligator clips I could attach to the copper o-rings on the extension cord. I read in another post, however, the gauge of the tender cables may be to small for a jump start and overheat. I can see the jump start cables are thicker than the battery tender cable.

That should be fine. The cable to the SAE connector on my bike has a 10A fuse in it. Assuming the bike in good state of tune and the only reason for a failed start is a low battery, there shouldn't be an extended period of cranking the starter.

 

[rustynut2]

I asked the same question to a manufacturer………see this…..


Placed an order for an xp-1 over the weekend.
I have a question. Since you sell lithium batteries and starter packs what do you suggest using to jump start a bike with a lithium battery, what works and what doesn't. I've somewhat asked before as my Africa Twin has the eliiy battery.
Ok so here is sort of the issue.. the HOnda Eliiy battery , as we understand has a non- replaceable circuit breaker or fuse in side of it. So I do not want to make any erroneous claims about this product since we have not opened them or specifically tested with them. But our batteries can be jump started and I will give you that method which you should be successful with the Eliiy Battery as well, but I can't make an absolute guarantee. But in general a Jump STarter really can't hurt a Lithium battery unless you are bouncing energized clamps off the batteries terminals. And you can't do that with our XP1 since it will not provide energy to the Battery unless all the connections are correct.

The reason they say not to jump Start lithium Batteries in some Motorcycles is because they have a BMS inside and the figure if done incorrectly it could damage the BMS. But to be clear the voltage on our MIcro Start jump Starter is LOWER than that of the battery in the bikes so there should not be any issues. So you would want to make sure when jump a lithium battery that you solidly connect the clamps to the battery itself first. Then plug the clamps into the jump starter. This is the best way to ensure there is not sparks.... though our Jump STarter is spark proof anyway. Then do the start , and remove the jump starter immediately, meaning within about 15 -30 seconds.

Another cool product we offer that makes this simpler is a Clampless Harnes Kit that attaches directly to the battery itself and you this harness directly outside from under the seat. THen if you need to ever jump start the vehicle you DON"T have to use the clamps or access the battery under the seat. You simply plug the XP1 directly into the harness, jumps start the bike an pull off XP1. Makes it super easy and also eliminates any chances or anything odd.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/pr.../cables-parts/starting-harness-newer-xp1-xp3/

Time for Antigravity Batteries Black Friday Sale for all of your Lithium needs!

Hi - your LD25 is a great discount. But I'm trying to order an XP1, and can't find the place to enter the code. What am I missing? It should be in...

advrider.com

 

[Mastercore]

I have had it on good sources that to avoid problems with surging power damage when jump starting your bike from an external power supply, switch on your headlights first before connecting the external power. Having this drain on the electrical system will protect against the surge of power. This applies to cars as well.

 

[DoubleThumper]

I have had it on good sources that to avoid problems with surging power damage when jump starting your bike from an external power supply, switch on your headlights first before connecting the external power. Having this drain on the electrical system will protect against the surge of power. This applies to cars as well.

The active headlight load (on the motorcycle) will provide a surge upon connection. Why not just ensure the ignition and any third party accessory circuits are turned off (i.e. via mechanical switch) prior to external passive (e.g. any engines turned off) source connection? If one is truly worried, pull out fuses that are associated to circuits other than the ignition circuits.

If the motorcycle battery is truly depleted, it will draw a lot of current. This is true for a lead acid-based battery. The lithium offerings ought to be limited by its built in battery management circuitry - that is, battery charge current draw is determined by those internal circuits.

If the headlights are turned on at the external source, then sure, the available current to the motorcycle boost will be lowered, however, the motorcycle will still draw what it needs to draw.

 

[yodasands]

I have a Hulkman Alpha 85 jump starter that I carry with me since both my AT and my wife’s CTX700 are DCT. I have not needed to use it on our bikes yet but I have jumped a Corvette and a Harley. It is an excellent product and can be used to charge phones and other accessories as needed. It has circuit protection that will not allow it to activate unless it is connected properly. Jumping the completely dead Vette battery did not even use 5% of the charge and it turned over immediately.

 

[WeeWilly]

I have a SAE battery tender style connector already in place. I have spare tender cables that would connect to the already wired battery tender cable under my seat. They terminate in copper leads (o-rings). I wondered if i can just use the extra cable to avoid pulling the tool box to get to the battery. The jump start battery cable has alligator clips I could attach to the copper o-rings on the extension cord. I read in another post, however, the gauge of the tender cables may be to small for a jump start and overheat. I can see the jump start cables are thicker than the battery tender cable.

If you use that connector to jump the bike you will surely toast the 5 or 7 amp fuse in the SAE line if it's there. Those do not represent a good jump connection. For the Li-ion battery storage devices (I carry the Zeus from Uncharted Supply) you want to connect direct to the battery hot circuit...preferably at the battery itself.

Ride safe out there.

 

[DoubleThumper]

Yeah, that Zeus gets a really good rating @WeeWilly.

 

[bietzarelli]

If you use that connector to jump the bike you will surely toast the 5 or 7 amp fuse in the SAE line if it's there. Those do not represent a good jump connection. For the Li-ion battery storage devices (I carry the Zeus from Uncharted Supply) you want to connect direct to the battery hot circuit...preferably at the battery itself.

Ride safe out there.

Yes, I think I saw what must be the in-line fuse for the tender cables. Best to do it right and just pull the body work and clamp the battery posts if the need ever arises.