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Discussion Starter #1
When I read all the threads posted by DCT owners it makes me wonder how many are confused by the myriad of settings available and do they have enough riding time in their life to discern the most advantageous setting for each scenario they'll likely come across during their ownership.
Spoke to some I've met that don't visit forums and they tend to use the same settings for everything here in the UK.
On my manual I ride TC and rear ABS off in the dry and TC set at 1 and ABS on in the wet.
No disrespect to DCT owners particularly those with 7 TC settings but I would imagine it's a bit of a puzzle to more than a few if they're honest.
This thread could be "tin hat" time for me and popcorn for some but I wonder how many are often left scratching their heads.
 

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No confusion for me in the last 3 years, I just get on and ride it, occasionally pop into manual when 2 up.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

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I think to better understand the responses, the model years matter. Early ones there were 3 levels and starting from 2018 there are 7. My ATAS DCT is a 2018 with 7 levels and off.

While it may seem like overkill I'll take the finer granularity and I'll explain why. First it is better to have it than not need it an the reverse. Secondly lets look at a possible scenario. Maybe the 3 you previously had were reasonably good for you. Then you slap on a new type of tires, let's say more dirt oriented or street oriented. That is one area the finer control could be nice.

Let's say you are off road and you used to ride in a lot of sand and now are in a lot of dirt. It would be nice to have the option to fine tune what you want. Personally I use the User setting and setup my most common settings in it.

I have played with them a bit on the street and not so much on the dirt. If dry I leave it in 1 or 2 and wet I am normally in 3 or 4.
 

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When I read all the threads posted by DCT owners it makes me wonder how many are confused by the myriad of settings available and do they have enough riding time in their life to discern the most advantageous setting for each scenario they'll likely come across during their ownership.
Spoke to some I've met that don't visit forums and they tend to use the same settings for everything here in the UK.
On my manual I ride TC and rear ABS off in the dry and TC set at 1 and ABS on in the wet.
No disrespect to DCT owners particularly those with 7 TC settings but I would imagine it's a bit of a puzzle to more than a few if they're honest.
This thread could be "tin hat" time for me and popcorn for some but I wonder how many are often left scratching their heads.

Is this thread about DCT or the Torque Control/ABS?

As it is titled.. "DCT Confusion", then I'll concentrate on that as TC/ABS is a distraction and has nothing to do with the DCT. Almost seems like you are confusing the two.. as if they are somehow linked. They are not.

There is no "myriad of settings available" for the DCT.

Manual.

Automatic.

For Automatic, there is either D mode which is the standard and is almost entirely about fuel economy, moving up the gears as fast as possible.

Or S mode. which has 3 levels and is all about when the gear box shifts in the rev range, about acceleration.

If you think the gear box has changed up too early.. then a simple movement of the left hand thumb drops a gear.

Its so simple.. even an uneducated dullard like me can understand it.


Very briefly on the subject of TC. which seems to be what this thread is actually about.

The bike has various default settings for that particular function and I have had zero need to touch them. I am unaware of a single instance since buying the bike in November of the TC actually engaging. Not once. Similarly the ABS. if either ever do engage.. then i will most likely be grateful. (as will my No Claims Bonus)

I can see the utility of 7 levels for highly skilled off road riders. but for the rest of us. especially those who do not go off road (Tarmac or unpaved) There is unlikely to be any need whatsoever to touch the defaults.

If you do choose to alter them.. then thats simple too. The owners manual is not a complicated read.
 

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Very briefly on the subject of TC. which seems to be what this thread is actually about.

The bike has various default settings for that particular function and I have had zero need to touch them. I am unaware of a single instance since buying the bike in November of the TC actually engaging. Not once. Similarly the ABS. if either ever do engage.. then i will most likely be grateful. (as will my No Claims Bonus)

I can see the utility of 7 levels for highly skilled off road riders. but for the rest of us. especially those who do not go off road (Tarmac or unpaved) There is unlikely to be any need whatsoever to touch the defaults.

If you do choose to alter them.. then thats simple too. The owners manual is not a complicated read.
My experience exactly. In two years and 30k miles I have never noticed the TC engage even once, and it's been left in the default (max) position for all that time. Today I was hammering around rough Yorkshire C-roads with big potholes and a fair bit of gravel No TC light at all. Then we went on pure gravel and stone across the top. Again no TC kicking in - mind you I am not an experienced off roader so I wasn't using much throttle. I have had the rear abs kick in once or twice in 2 years but not since I moved the brake pedal down to a more controllable position.
Mike
 

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Most of the confusion I see is by people who have no access to a DCT bike to test or confirm the ins and outs of the DCT tranny.
The internets don't provide the right answers.
Offroad? Turn TC off or whatever- to each his own. Does not matter; it's fun in any setting.
Day or Night :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Three modes, manual, D and S, seven traction controls and ABS on or off when tried in the myriad of combinations available is perhaps the way I should have worded my inquiry.
Nobody has replied to feeling that they may be confused as to which combination is totally right for them so I can only assume that everything is hunky dory and perhaps it is time I tried one myself.
 

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I have a '17 model, I leave it in sport mode 1 (I guess that's what they call it?), traction control on 3 setting...90% of the time I am riding. Am I a seasoned enough rider to intelligently pick and discern all the different combos of settings? Probably not. Do I care? Not really. All in know is when I crack the throttle and the DCT starts doing it's thing it puts a very large smile on my face. I don't miss using a clutch one little bit.
 

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Three modes, manual, D and S, seven traction controls and ABS on or off when tried in the myriad of combinations available is perhaps the way I should have worded my inquiry.
Nobody has replied to feeling that they may be confused as to which combination is totally right for them so I can only assume that everything is hunky dory and perhaps it is time I tried one myself.
You are wrong about the DCT permutations. But not wrong about the other complexities. In my experience the DCT was easy to master. Maybe an hour or two's riding and I was using D and S mode at the right places and found the downpaddle amazing. Rarely used M- mode but knew what to do if I fancied trying it. With later iterations of the DCT then 3 different sport modes was easy to grasp.
It took me about an hour of riding the 2018 bike to explore the different engine power and braking modes and to detect the subtle differences between them. I have set up User mode to have highest engine power (massively more it seems than my 2017 bike) and weakest engine braking. I now leave the SEL button at the Mode position in the display then I press up to get high power (country roads) and down arrow to get Gravel - which is nice for tootling in urban areas or for economy on long runs. If I really want to get a move on, then when I'm in User mode I also select Sport mode on the DCT which defaults to the highest sport mode because that's how I last used it.
All the rest of the bikes settings are wasted on me - I have never felt the TC kicking in so I leave it in default mode, and I never go off road so wouldn't want to switch off the ABS, And the Gravel mode doesn't seem to do anything on this bike whereas I could feel some different behaviour on the 2017 bike that was useful (it seemed to soften the jerkiness when riding slowly in town)
Mike
 

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There is no combination of modes that are "correct" or wrong for riding.
You can ride all day in 'D-mode' or S2-mode- whatever tickles your fancy.
But as you ride more and are more familiar with the tune of the engine,
there is that combination which "feels" good and "correct".
Since everybody "feels" differently the mode settings will be different for each.
That is where the confusion is- not realizing that every rider will utilize the DCT differently.

This is my opinion and may be different from what Honda engineers intended.
 

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I can see some confusion with the DCT and TC settings for riders first trying ATs with these features. It took four demonstration rides to form an opinion on the Africa Twin. My current ride was a 2011 650 V-Strom. The rides were all around 20 minutes long with a group of riders all on different model Hondas. The first ride was on the manual transmission variant. This was probably a good start. The second ride was on a DCT with me suffering from information overload. I was too busy trying to find switches and grasp how they worked while riding a strange bike and avoiding potential contact with other bikes. The third ride on a DCT, I had an idea where switches were and what they did. The fourth ride was a DCT as well. This was where I actually got to relax and just enjoy the experience to the point I could start to make an informed decision on the machine. I still need to play with traction control, gravel and ABS settings. For people like me with decades of saddle time using a clutch, the DCT is quite an adjustment. One or two short demonstration rides is not really enough time when first exposed to the DCT. I don't think I will regret my purchase but it will take some experimenting to be completely at ease with the ATAS DCT.
 

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My '17 bike has DCT with theoretically 4 settings of automatic - D, S1, S2 & S3.
In practise I ignore D and I don't bother with S2. I just use S1 for most riding as it works nicely and suits normal riding. For spirited riding in the twisties or for off-road where I want the better control offered by lower gears - I switch to S3.

So I put it in S1 and TC on level 2 and just ride, definitely not a confusing thing at all. When I first got the bike I did try out the different settings, but now I know what I prefer.
 

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His 80 setting graph is your bike......

I am an S3 TC1 G button on guy for basically everything but slippery situations. I had no idea there were 80 possible ways to set it. How many without manual?
 

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The 80 combinations of what Honda calls "Drive Modes" in the graphic I posted are mostly different shift algorithms.
The 2018+ models introduced 3 Engine Power (EP) levels and 3 Engine Braking (EB) levels
Older models do not have this control due to lack of Throttle by Wire (TBW)
You can't change what is set up for these parameters as TOUR/URBAN/GRAVEL modes
But in USER mode each EP, EB and TC levels can be customized to your liking.
So, for 2018+ model DCT, we have the basic 80 combination Drive Modes for each of
  • 4 additional TC levels giving us 160 Drive Modes.
  • 3 EP/EB presets resulting in 480 combinations
  • USER mode can create an additional 5 distinct power settings other than T/U/G
How many different combinations does that make? 1280 (did I do my math right?)
If that doesn't confuse someone, my hat's off to ya!
 

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Guys, i was considering changing my 2016 bike to a 2018 one to have the 7 level of TC adjustment and so on. Then I realised that as you set or rather fine tune the TC selecting one of the 7 levels.....the surface condition even on a short dirt road section easily changes more than that delicate diff between two TC levels..
So in my opinion the original 3 levels is the best. How do I want the TC to interfere? Level 3 immediately level 2 medium level 1 just a little bit. Very simple. Also very easy to judge what setting i need is by looking at the road ahead.
I just can not see most riders to consider should it be level 4 or maybe 5? Same with engine braking and power. Engine braking is given by the character of your bike, ride it and learn it. (My aircooled multistrada had such an engine braking that i hardly used the brakes on flowing twisties) the AT has less engine braking that was strange at first but i adjusted to it. power? Come’on. Use the throttle as required. Part of the fun of riding. So adding complexity will really dilute the experience. I also think that being one with your bike is important. But if the power, EB and god knows what is high or low etc how can you really know how it behaves in a unexpected situation? Will you just remember that it was in eb 2 tc 4 and power 3 so i aplly this level of pressure to the brake and i use the throttle like that.
to me it seems really OTT and really being the case of less is often more.
 

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Then I realised that as you set or rather fine tune the TC selecting one of the 7 levels.....the surface condition even on a short dirt road section easily changes more than that delicate diff between two TC levels..
So in my opinion the original 3 levels is the best. How do I want the TC to interfere? Level 3 immediately level 2 medium level 1 just a little bit. Very simple. Also very easy to judge what setting i need is by looking at the road ahead.
On my '17 I pretty much just set the TC to level 2 because level 3 is WAY too overprotective and makes the bike gutless, Level 1 is a bit too wild for me with a lot more rear slide than is safe for my skill level.

On newer bikes you are offered EXACTLY the same options + 4 more. So if 2,4 & 6 are equal to 1, 2 & 3 then you could just as easily select 4 on the newer bike to get the equivalent of 2 on the older bike. But you could also opt for an in-between setting. If you want more TC than 2 but not as much as 3 on the older model - tough. On the newer model you CAN have more than 4 but not as much as 6 by choosing 5, that in-between setting doesn't exist on the 3-mode bikes. Similarly you could wish for more loose riding with a less aggressive TC setting than 2 but not as little as offered by TC1 which isn't available on the older bikes, on the newer bike less than 4 but not as little as 2 is available as TC3.

Generally a rider will work out what works well for their riding style. With 7 levels they could decide that they are happy with TC4 which gives them the same as the old bike had, OR - they could decide that 3 or 5 is a bit better, which are options not available with the 3-level TC.

Even better would be the 2020 bike's TC that can use information from the IMU to provide cornering TC, something that none of the earlier bikes offer.

I don't buy the idea that you would try to tune the TC to the surface conditions on the 7-Level when you don't do that with the 3-Level TC. Surely you would just find a general TC level that suits what you are happy with - then stick with that. You might find that you like TC5 on the road and TC3 off the road and you just use those settings exclusively, no fine tuning for the surface conditions. There will be an amount of slip you are happy with and you will set the TC accordingly.
 

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What many don't realize is that the 2018 models not only has more TC levels but with TBW,
the ECU integrates with TC and adjust not only the ignition cuts but controls power to the rear wheel via throttle control- it takes over.
The result is a much smoother ride according to the given surface condition no matter how bad you are with the throttle.

You don't need to know the details of all the internal algorithms that keep the rear traction as the ECU will manage it- set it and forget it.
All this results in better riding on any given trail or road condition.
I haven't tried offroad with my new 2019 yet but I am eager to find out.
2018 HSTC via TBW.jpg
 

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kiwiMark, re: your last paragraph I think you misunderst me. my point is that the slight diff between two settings in among the 7 TC levels can easily be “compensated” by the changes in road condition, i am talking about Dirt road not asphalt. The surface can be hardpacked on one section then a little loose on another. Then the more finer the TC can be adjusted the less variation of the road surface can show that on one section the Tc setting is just right, just a bit too much or just could be less ontrusive.
even if you have more settings the tc will never be 100% right due to the road surface variations off asphalt. On the ordinary road that‘s not as important as surface consistency is much better but still there can be a more slippery bend in a shade.
 
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