Honda Africa Twin Forum banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, It was time to do my first service on my new ATAS DCT. I assembled all the proper items, new crush washers..check, new DCT cover O-ring and filter...check, new oem oil filter and 5 quarts of GN4, check.

It's a beautiful day outside, let's do this. I hop on it and take a rip around the block to warm up the engine. Turn off and wait two to three minutes, note I am explicitly following the directions in the owners manual. So everything is going ok, except for being the messiest oil change I've ever done. now, it's time to put things back together, I go grab my trusty old Craftsman clicker style torque wrench. I decide to do the small DCT filter cover bolts first, look in the Manual, says 9lbf ft, or 12nm. I set the wrench to 9lbf...and double check the settings and the manual. yup its correct. I gently tighten the bolts in sequence, finger tight first, while pressing the cover flat against the spring tention. grab the torque wrench, and slowly tighten waiting for the click. ......... waiting....... waiting..... ok, it should have clicked by now! getting nervous, so I loosen the bolts with small 3/8 drive ratchet, they didnt seem to be very tight, so tried the torque wrench again, .....waiting for the click..... ok, somethings not right, my torque wrench has to be wrong! So, I dialed back the setting to 7lbf-ft, and easily get a gentle click from the torque wrench on both bolts.

Now, this is where my Perfectionism and OCD personality traits just cause me no end of trouble. Why could I not just leave it at 7??? Nooo.... set the wrench back to 9, and continued to wait for the click again, I got to 9blf-ft on the right (top) bolt, so maybe I'm just being overly paranoid. so I went to the left bolt, after turning a bit and feeling as if I was ripping the threads right out of the side cover, I nearly began to have a panic attack, my brain said STOP! I backed both bolts out, and upon inspection, found that the left bolt was stretching and about to snap! I began to feel sick as I paused and tried to estimate how much it would cost to replace that side cover, with all the DCT hardware and bearings attached to it. I mean, if were the left cover It would be no problem. (or maybe not, since I can't even change the oil without a disaster) I threw the torque wrench away, and tightened everything by instinct, the DCT cover is holding fine, the bottom bolt is just a couple of mm longer than it should be. I guess I could replace the damaged bolt. I pray I did not damage the threads, I don't think I did. I guess I could drill and tap the hole to next larger size if necessary?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
I did this exact same thing. I over-torqued and snapped the small DCT oil filter cover bolt. Had to drill and pull out with an extractor. It was a hairy operation, because failure would have meant the nightmare of needing a new case. Thank God it worked. Hand tight now...and totally understand your experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
I find a 1/4" ratchet to be just about the right size to tighten a 6mm bolt, holding the length in my palm and using just my wrist. Nothing falls off, and I've never broken a bolt. And you can feel it when it's coming tight.
Honda has made their small bolts from cheese since the beginning. I'm sure it's to keep inexperienced people (without the luxury of owning a torque wrench) from pulling the threads out of the aluminum cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
If you do happen to strip the treads its not the end of the world, no need to replace the housing, a cheap heli coil tread insert kit will fix the tread & make the thread stronger than the original, kits come with drill bit, tap, install tool, thread inserts & instructions, you can get them in all sizes to suit what ever you have destroyed 😅
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Just checked the screw torque, there is a miss print in the Honda manual, Honda list 2 torque values, 1 for m6 screws at 9nm & for the clutch cover m6 screws at 12nm the correct torque for m6 screws is 9nm not 12nm or 9 ftlbs. Its no wonder the screws have been stripping out using the manuals torque specs:mad::poop::mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I feel better. I did a calibration test of my torque wrench hanging various weights off the handle, and it seems to be spot on, as far as I can tell given the crudeness of the testing. I was on the Goldwing forums, and they seem to have lots of trouble with this very issue, many people try to torque these bolts to 19ftlbs because of a misprint or misleading paragraph in the owners manual, also their Filter is under the bike I believe, so any extraction of a broken bolt much more difficult.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Just checked the screw torque, there is a miss print in the Honda manual, Honda list 2 torque values, 1 for m6 screws at 9nm & for the clutch cover m6 screws at 12nm the correct torque for m6 screws is 9nm not 12nm or 9 ftlbs. Its no wonder the screws have been stripping out using the manuals torque specs:mad::poop::mad:
:oops:...that makes perfect sense if it they mixed up 9nm with 9ftlbs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
So, It was time to do my first service on my new ATAS DCT. I assembled all the proper items, new crush washers..check, new DCT cover O-ring and filter...check, new oem oil filter and 5 quarts of GN4, check.

It's a beautiful day outside, let's do this. I hop on it and take a rip around the block to warm up the engine. Turn off and wait two to three minutes, note I am explicitly following the directions in the owners manual. So everything is going ok, except for being the messiest oil change I've ever done. now, it's time to put things back together, I go grab my trusty old Craftsman clicker style torque wrench. I decide to do the small DCT filter cover bolts first, look in the Manual, says 9lbf ft, or 12nm. I set the wrench to 9lbf...and double check the settings and the manual. yup its correct. I gently tighten the bolts in sequence, finger tight first, while pressing the cover flat against the spring tention. grab the torque wrench, and slowly tighten waiting for the click. ......... waiting....... waiting..... ok, it should have clicked by now! getting nervous, so I loosen the bolts with small 3/8 drive ratchet, they didnt seem to be very tight, so tried the torque wrench again, .....waiting for the click..... ok, somethings not right, my torque wrench has to be wrong! So, I dialed back the setting to 7lbf-ft, and easily get a gentle click from the torque wrench on both bolts.

Now, this is where my Perfectionism and OCD personality traits just cause me no end of trouble. Why could I not just leave it at 7??? Nooo.... set the wrench back to 9, and continued to wait for the click again, I got to 9blf-ft on the right (top) bolt, so maybe I'm just being overly paranoid. so I went to the left bolt, after turning a bit and feeling as if I was ripping the threads right out of the side cover, I nearly began to have a panic attack, my brain said STOP! I backed both bolts out, and upon inspection, found that the left bolt was stretching and about to snap! I began to feel sick as I paused and tried to estimate how much it would cost to replace that side cover, with all the DCT hardware and bearings attached to it. I mean, if were the left cover It would be no problem. (or maybe not, since I can't even change the oil without a disaster) I threw the torque wrench away, and tightened everything by instinct, the DCT cover is holding fine, the bottom bolt is just a couple of mm longer than it should be. I guess I could replace the damaged bolt. I pray I did not damage the threads, I don't think I did. I guess I could drill and tap the hole to next larger size if necessary?
When you are under 10 ft-lbs, you should use a inch-lb torque wrench and convert it which would be 120 inch lbs. Unless you have a very expensive, high quality torque wrench, the inexpensive ones are not accurate at the lower settings and that is problematic because the smaller bolts break much easier. If it is not a critical component like head and crank bolts, you can just cinch it up without a torque wrench if your not one of those guys who always thinks one more turn is better. I see more people get themselves in trouble using torque wrenches to tighten everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi, I have some new info.
I just had my tank off to clean out and install the Guglatech, and when I saw the torque spec for the packing was 9 lbf-ft
I said, not this again... I ordered a new wrench because I don't trust the Craftsman one I used to torque the DCT filter bolts. The Craftsman is a 3/8 drive inch lbs (was set to 108, dry threads, held correctly, etc.) So I put my fuel pump back in, torqued the bolts with the new digital 1/4 drive, it become very apparent with the shorter wrench that 9 lbf-ft is a lot of force to be applied to those small DCT filter cover bolts, it makes me cringe thinking about it. when I finished setting the packing bolts with the new wrench, I put the old Craftsman on them out of curiosity, and it clicked right away. :unsure:

62350
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
As stated above I use an "inch lb" torque wrench when very low numbers are needed. Regarding your issue. Don't mess with it anymore. you can replace the bolt, but do not rethread. Just leave it be UNLESS it's leaking, but it's not. so leave it.... I know how you feel. I get the same way about my bike...
 

·
Registered
2020 CRF1100 - ATAS DCT
Joined
·
23 Posts
So, It was time to do my first service on my new ATAS DCT. I assembled all the proper items, new crush washers..check, new DCT cover O-ring and filter...check, new oem oil filter and 5 quarts of GN4, check.

It's a beautiful day outside, let's do this. I hop on it and take a rip around the block to warm up the engine. Turn off and wait two to three minutes, note I am explicitly following the directions in the owners manual. So everything is going ok, except for being the messiest oil change I've ever done. now, it's time to put things back together, I go grab my trusty old Craftsman clicker style torque wrench. I decide to do the small DCT filter cover bolts first, look in the Manual, says 9lbf ft, or 12nm. I set the wrench to 9lbf...and double check the settings and the manual. yup its correct. I gently tighten the bolts in sequence, finger tight first, while pressing the cover flat against the spring tention. grab the torque wrench, and slowly tighten waiting for the click. ......... waiting....... waiting..... ok, it should have clicked by now! getting nervous, so I loosen the bolts with small 3/8 drive ratchet, they didnt seem to be very tight, so tried the torque wrench again, .....waiting for the click..... ok, somethings not right, my torque wrench has to be wrong! So, I dialed back the setting to 7lbf-ft, and easily get a gentle click from the torque wrench on both bolts.

Now, this is where my Perfectionism and OCD personality traits just cause me no end of trouble. Why could I not just leave it at 7??? Nooo.... set the wrench back to 9, and continued to wait for the click again, I got to 9blf-ft on the right (top) bolt, so maybe I'm just being overly paranoid. so I went to the left bolt, after turning a bit and feeling as if I was ripping the threads right out of the side cover, I nearly began to have a panic attack, my brain said STOP! I backed both bolts out, and upon inspection, found that the left bolt was stretching and about to snap! I began to feel sick as I paused and tried to estimate how much it would cost to replace that side cover, with all the DCT hardware and bearings attached to it. I mean, if were the left cover It would be no problem. (or maybe not, since I can't even change the oil without a disaster) I threw the torque wrench away, and tightened everything by instinct, the DCT cover is holding fine, the bottom bolt is just a couple of mm longer than it should be. I guess I could replace the damaged bolt. I pray I did not damage the threads, I don't think I did. I guess I could drill and tap the hole to next larger size if necessary?
I came across this thread after doing my own oil change after a road trip - you don't know that this info is there until its too late unfortunately....how would I have ever guessed to check for a thread disputing the torque values in the manual???
I had the same issue when replacing the bolts for the DCT filter cover, and panicked - which made me turn to this forum in search of others with similar experiences.

Having put everything back together there is a very slight seeping of oil from the DCT filter cover.

I've ordered new bolts and O-ring in the hope that this will fix the issue. I'm wondering if anyone with this issue has had a leak, and the new parts fixed it, or am I screwed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I came across this thread after doing my own oil change after a road trip - you don't know that this info is there until its too late unfortunately....how would I have ever guessed to check for a thread disputing the torque values in the manual???
I had the same issue when replacing the bolts for the DCT filter cover, and panicked - which made me turn to this forum in search of others with similar experiences.

Having put everything back together there is a very slight seeping of oil from the DCT filter cover.

I've ordered new bolts and O-ring in the hope that this will fix the issue. I'm wondering if anyone with this issue has had a leak, and the new parts fixed it, or am I screwed?
Hi, replacing the bolts worked for me, but the threads are still slightly damaged. when I do my next oil change soon, I'm going to run a tap through them. I've replaced my O-ring with every oil change, and lube it with oil before I install. I read somewhere on the Gold wing forums they twist easily and can leak. Good luck!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,164 Posts
They are essentially [soft] crush washers and Honda, Yamaha, Aprilia, etc. strongly recommend replacing them after each removal.

I never have in decades of oil changes. But I also don't over-torque the bolt either.
 

·
Registered
2020 CRF1100 - ATAS DCT
Joined
·
23 Posts
They are essentially [soft] crush washers and Honda, Yamaha, Aprilia, etc. strongly recommend replacing them after each removal.

I never have in decades of oil changes. But I also don't over-torque the bolt either.
I'm wondering if a small washer will alter the position of the bolt enough at tightening to allow it to seat better on the threads now that they may have been slightly over-torqued, or if I'm just looking for trouble.

I'm also wondering why Honda wouldn't include the o-ring in the package with the DCT filter cartridge if its a required replacement part when its changed...I suppose I can guess why :rolleyes:
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top