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DCT slow hairpins

3.3K views 32 replies 13 participants last post by  Hood  
#1 ·
Currently riding a Tiger 900 Rally pro but I am considering going back to the AT (I had a 2018 ATAS) as I like the idea of DCT. However one thing concerns me and perhaps others who have the current 2024 DCT can comment.
I have always been wary of taking uphill hairpins where there is a risk of losing forward motion when leaned over. This goes back to my youth when I fell off twice on Hardknot pass in the Lake district UK. I am now aged 71 and on my manual bikes I have slipped the clutch in a low gear and kept the revs up to avoid stalling (ie, Pass of Cattle Scotland). So how do you do similar with a DCT on a tight hairpin ? I have yet to get a test ride on a ATAS DCT but have ridden a Goldwing DCT.
 
#4 ·
Mine is a 2017 but same principle as above. Hairpins...I'd be in manual and assess the bend ahead, maybe drop into 1st and be ready to drag the back brake. Not had an issue doing dozens of Alps and Pyrenees passes, often 2 up with luggage. (Foreign passes/cols are easier than the likes of the Hardknott/Wrynose which are singletrack so going up or down single track passes takes far more prior planning and sometimes pulling up and waiting for others to clear the bends.)
 
#5 ·
FWIW: I drag the rear brake on manual clutch bikes for a similar reason. Smooths out the torque input, slows suspension movement and also helps quell "snatchy" throttles. Drive the engine torque against the rear brake.
For me it's a great "cheat". Pretty sure I look more handsome when doing it as well. 🤣
I have no first hand experience with a DCT bike... yet. It is one of the very first slow speed techniques I plan to try during the demo ride. :cool:
 
#8 ·
Hi Kev, it's Mike who bought your wheels and which are still in much better condition than the ones I took off. All I can say in answer to your question is that I have done now about 100k miles on DCT bikes and done hundreds if not thousands of hairpins without the slightest problems. That includes hardknott several times. I also do several hairpins around Saltburn and skinnigrove every week on the ride down to Whitby. Pass of the Cattle near Applecross was never a problem either, and I've done several in the mountains in Northern Spain. It's very comforting to know that in those 100k miles none of the DCT bikes has ever stalled once. I sometimes use a bit of back brake to control things on the tightest of hairpins but not often.
Hood might have some throttle spacers to fit the 24 bike - these can help in giving a more predictable take-up point for the power, which is useful when going slowly.
Mike
 
#9 ·
@BigKev hope you'll post up your thoughts when you do get to test ride the Africa Twin.
These two bikes are the top two choices for a new bike this fall. I'm planning to demo ride them both in the next few weeks.

Your input on pros/cons for each, based on personal experience, would be very valuable. 👍

Side note: I was headed to the Triumph dealer back in '20 to buy a new Tiger RP when my girl friend spotted an ad for an almost new '18 ATAS. Riding the Honda was incredibly relaxed (manual trans). But it was the colors and beauty that sold me. So that is what ended up coming home. The Tiger was more exciting to ride, and loaded with goodies to play with. The Honda was a better outdoor experience, in that I focused less on the bike, and more on the surroundings. That was what I was looking for.
No idea how that compares to the new AT with more power. Like you, I'm looking forward to the test ride.

Happy Trails! 🍻
 
#10 ·
If your going for a 2024 DCT i wouldnt worry at all. I had one for a test ride at the ABR and felt as if the clutch was slipped alot more at slow speeds ( RPM rased freely without the bike speed changing as much), could 100% feel and hear a difference from my 2021 DCT. This made the slow manoeuvres much smoother and no need to cover the rear brake as i do on my 2021
 
#13 ·
The fairing changes have kind of grown on me but I have only seen them in pictures so what it is like in the flesh I don't know. I was kind of thinking of updating to a 2024 but funds are too low, the Tax man wiped me out :D
I think I will be keeping this one for a while and likely my next bike will be a smaller lighter bike, Kove 800 maybe :D

Lots of reviews said they noticed the torque difference but maybe that is just in their minds, who knows.
 
#14 ·
Most likely reviewers are noticing the torque curve moved down the rpm range more than the increase in torque. Moving power lower in the rpm range is very noticeable. Especially 250 rpms down the range.
I've seen a few reviews where the '22 under fast launch almost dumps the clutch. In the very few reviews which showed a fast launch on the '24 does seem less abrupt. Having not ridden any version, it is something I'm interested in.

I am looking at the '24 for sidecar use. A more progressive engagement when loaded down with a sidecar would be beneficial as would the torque at lower rpm. That wrote, and to your point, if a smoking good deal came up on a '22 it would be hard to pass up. 👍
 
#16 ·
I usually ride steep up hills in S2 or even better in manual. That way you can control the gears.
where I personally struggle with on this big bike is that I tend to go pretty wide in steep up hill hairpins. Reason being that I have very little traction on the front wheel due to all the weight being on the rear. Sometimes I feel like the front wheel is in the air (which it obviously isn’t’). 😅
 
#17 ·
What nobody said is that the "G" function (or button in pre-2020 models) dramatically helps when doing tight hairpins. When the G functions is active, the current gear will be held at extended RPMs (both down and up) and therefore you can make the tight turns keeping the 2nd gear instead of having the bike change in 1st gear (maybe in the middle on the turn!).-
 
#19 ·
As already stated, the AT is versatile in most road conditions, but yes I too have felt less confident in some tight turns when not in any of the 'S' modes. Have not really played with the 'G' mode, so I cant make comment, but I think using one of the 'S' modes achieves similar results, I like to have the engine at a higher speed and not have the gearbox default to the highest gear and lose engine speed.
 
#20 ·
All evidence I have seen regarding G mode suggests it is all to do with clutch engagement. The Honda data online suggest it engages the clutch with less slip, the owners manual suggests that is its function also. I have never seen any mention of it extending revs before gear changes. It may well do but it is certainly not what Honda says its purpose and effect is, or at least I have never seen them mention that.
 
#21 ·
G-mode for DCT
This is a topic that confuses many. I've pointed many online discussions to Honda Research Publication site where you can read about this in detail.
Vol28-2e_02 Development of CRF1000L Africa Twin
These 'papers' are detailed and adorned with colorful graphs that show the differences in shifting with G-mode on and off (pg.17 FIG23)
.
This paper puts it in black and white that the G-mode alters the shift schedules in ALL riding modes.
 
#22 ·
Interesting, it is the first time I have seen that. From a quick look it seems minimal change when changing up but a bit more when changing down. Would have been good if there were numbers to the graph with regards speed. Will have a better study of it when I get home.
Sadly there doesn't seem to be the same amount of info for the 1100 but likely it will be similar.
 
#23 ·
I've been keen on the effects of the G-mode since the 2016 debut of the DCT Africa Twin. In the beginning Honda was also promoting this feature quite heavily.
But with each passing year the DCT talking points shifted towards the "latest and greatest" additions like IMU integration and EERA etc.
I remember I had linked to several Honda produced videos demonstrating the riders POV highlighting features of the G-button.
These were figure 8 exercises and uphill starts that make it easier to test the effects of the 'slightly faster' clutch engagement.
Obviously, the surface was gravel, not pavement. That and the remnants of what was published in the paper I linked earlier.
All that we have to go on from here is to see for ourselves
.
Best part is that it's so easy for anyone to go out and test this G-button )
 
#25 ·
I have now read the paper and it is kind of short on info, it does describe things but with no numbers it kind of leaves things a bit vague, shame really, interesting all the same.
I have seen and also linked to the text regarding the figure of eight you mention but not seen any videos.

I did test out G-mode on my previous 2021 AT but felt absolutely no difference which really didn't surprise me as I couldn't feel any difference on that one when changing any settings with the exception of D/S1/S2/S3. and now I have a 2022 ATAS I know there was definitely and issue with that bike as on the current bike I can really feel the difference when I change anything. I will have to give the G-mode a try on this one and see what it is like.
 
#27 ·
Agree with you there. TBH I have not tried the G-mode on my 2022 ATAS much.
Older models have a dedicated button but after they moved the feature into the maze of the onboard display, I rarely use it.
YES, I am aware of the favorite button use but I like to leave that for the HSTC which I need more often.
.
IMO, it was always a very 'specialized' feature- to have more fun offroad.
Some mentioned that it helps in slow turns and I don't disagree but for me, the rear brake is sufficient without the G-mode.
 
#28 ·
I tried it out today on a 130 mile run of narrow hilly single track back roads and I must admit I kind of liked it.

What I can say is for me I felt no difference on delaying the upshift, it seemed to upshift at exactly the same revs/speed as when it is switched off.

I did think it changed down quicker when slowing down, this was quite evident as I normally kick down the gears with my foot shifter but quite a few times today I was about to downshift and the bike did it itself and after that I just let it do the downshifting and it mostly matched the way I like it.

Take off just felt the same with the clutch slip I normally have and I can't say I noticed the clutch engaging faster in other gears but what I did feel is it seems more of a direct connection to the throttle. It is hard to explain really but it kind of felt like the fuel mapping was changed in some way.

I will have to try it some more and see if I can narrow things down.

The manual says if you enable in the User modes it will stick after a cycle of the ignition switch but sadly for me that is not happening so it needs to be done via page 4 of the gold screen, all my modes with the exception of offroad are set to the gold screen so it is fairly easy to navigate and change it but it is a shame it wont stick, at least for me, in the user modes.

Like you I have HSTC set for the favourite button and I will keep it that way.
 
#30 ·
Oh and BTW I am now using G Mode mostly and liking it a lot. Still can't really quantify what the difference to it is in the main but it just feels nicer to me. I don't notice any change in the upshift pattern but I do notice it does downshift quicker. Shame I can't get it to stick to G mode in the User modes like the manual says. At the moment I have it set to the favourite but do prefer that to be for HSTC.

The reason I had never tried it on this bike was that on my last one there was absolutely no difference with it on or off but then that bike didn't seem to respond to any settings, whether modes or power or EB etc, they all felt the same.
 
#31 ·
I've been trying it too (on my 2019 bike) and previously I didn't think I noticed any difference, but now I think it does indeed hold on to a lower gear for longer - for instance it will choose 3rd instead of the normal 4th gear at 30mph in town in D mode. Which got me puzzling as to how this is different from (say) S1 mode 🤷‍♂️
Mike