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Do you need to use the back brake when taking off?

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At first I thought it was maybe me just because I hadn't had a bike for 25 years, I got used to it, learned how to control it but I know it wasn't right simply by the fact that my 2022 behaves exactly as it should so I have direct comparison between a good one and a bad one.
I still loved the 2021 but I love the 2022 even more :)
Understood. I should add that I still cover the back brake just in case!! I should add also that I value your input to the site so please don't think I was having a 'pop' for the sake of it my brother. After re reading my post it seems I'm having a go at those with genuine throttle problems as if I'm the expert. Sorry it it came across that way. I'm just grateful that my bike doesn't do it.
I'll get me coat. 馃槵
 

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Well,
I didn't even read all the responses but, maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. Why in the world would I need to use a brake to take off from a standing start? I have TWO DCT machines. One is an '18 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports DCT and the other is an '18 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT Airbag. And neither one requires any form of brake application when I get ready to throttle away from any form of a stop.

I'm pushing 69 and I grew up watching folks using a left foot on the brake pedal of an automatic car even when accelerating from a stop sign or light. I have never, EVER understood that principle. When I'm at a stop light or stop sign, and it's my turn to go, I simply go, period. And that includes taking off either uphill or downhill. I have total control of my throttle and can easily accelerate or, I can hit it hard, depending on what the situation is. Again, maybe I just don't understand what's being asked.
Scott
 

Premium Member
2022 CRF1100 ATAS ES DCT
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2,005 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
... Again, maybe I just don't understand what's being asked.
Scott
Exactly, it is normal not to have to use it, my 2022 I don't have to, turn the throttle and the DCT clutch engages in a similar manner it would with a standard clutched bike. On my 2021 I did, slightest turn of the throttle and the bike would leap forward as if you pinged the clutch out.
 

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Exactly, it is normal not to have to use it, my 2022 I don't have to, turn the throttle and the DCT clutch engages in a similar manner it would with a standard clutched bike. On my 2021 I did, slightest turn of the throttle and the bike would leap forward as if you pinged the clutch out.
I wonder if there is a Throttle Position Sensor reset that could maybe be done to smooth out the throttle on ones like your 2021?
 

Premium Member
2022 CRF1100 ATAS ES DCT
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2,005 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I should really have taken it in and asked them to plug it in and reset ECU or whatever but Covid was still on the go, they were very busy and I just thought it was because I had not been on bikes for 1/4 century. As time went on I got used to it and was much more able to manage things or maybe it got slightly better as time went on but I still had to use the back brake 90% plus of the time and I had covered 2,000 miles so it should have bedded in by then if it was the clutches..

When I got the 2022 I saw what it should really have been like, nice smooth take off as if the clutch was being eased out as you would a standard bike/car/whatever.

A few other things on the 2021, engine braking never worked correctly, mostly it was like I was pulling on the brake quite hard, changing between the EB settings had no noticeable effect. I learned to slow gently by rolling off the throttle and sometimes that would make the EB work like I expected but even then it seemed to have a mind of its own and 99% of the time it was abrupt.

Because of the EB that made coming off the cruise control a pain as it felt like you were braking hard, I found the only way to mitigate that was to open the throttle to where it was just acting and then tapping the gear shift paddle (or brake) , that cut the cruise control and throttle was where it should be for the revs I was doing so no jolt forward.

The different power settings didn't seem to have much effect either, certainly nothing like on my 2022 where I can tell which mode I am in, just by the feel even if I have Waze on the main screen and thus can't see the mode info.

I fitted throttle spacers to take the initial free play out of the throttle and that made a massive difference to the behaviour and absolutely transformed my experience but it was still not as it should have been as the 2022 has shown me.
 

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wow - there was something definitely wrong with your earlier bike Hood. Amazing that you somehow tamed it.
It's so annoying that we cannot pin down a concise description of the problem which is present on SOME bikes as it's likely the various issues are all connected to something simple (surging/hesitation, erratic engine braking, occasionally a bike with wild take-off). If this was a single complaint like the particles-in-tank problem, then Honda would eventually admit there was a problem and solve it, but because we have a dozen different threads where riders are mildly complaining about unpleasant riding, the issue has probably not even gone up on Honda's radar. :cry:
Mike
 

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2020 Africa Twin DCT
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My limited reading (this thread) is suggesting that this is a 2020-2021 (1100) problem, and it鈥檚 something we have largely learned how to deal with. Are there complaints from the previous generation?
 

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My limited reading (this thread) is suggesting that this is a 2020-2021 (1100) problem, and it鈥檚 something we have largely learned how to deal with. Are there complaints from the previous generation?
No. You are correct I don鈥檛 think any of the 1000 cc bikes ever reported wild take-off problems
Mike
 

Premium Member
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I hear if you shove a stick of butter into the crankcase, it makes it smooth as....well...butter.

Must look weird to the vehicle behind with a motorcycle leaving a stop with the brake light on.
Actually when I was growing up, I knew many, many guys that used their left foot on the cars brake pedal with an automatic. And what many of them never realized (unless I or someone who paid attention was following them for some reason) was that, their left foot, even with a slight amount of pressure on the pedal, caused the brake lights to illuminate. And that was with full acceleration. For some odd reason, many guys learned to drive automatics with BOTH FEET. I have never ever done that. Even in critical backing or close-quarter vehicle ops, I've only used ONE foot.

So, to see a motorcycle take off from a stop light with the brake lights on, might not draw all that much attention. People on cell phones, texting, putting makeup on, drinking or eating stuff, talking, day-dreaming and a whole lot more won't even notice the brake lights are on when a motorcycle accelerates from a stop light/sign. They're all clueless on using turn signals so, it would be normal to most of them.
Scott
 

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2018 AT DCT
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39 Posts
At first I thought it was maybe me just because I hadn't had a bike for 25 years, I got used to it, learned how to control it but I know it wasn't right simply by the fact that my 2022 behaves exactly as it should so I have direct comparison between a good one and a bad one.
I still loved the 2021 but I love the 2022 even more :)
I鈥檓 100% sure that a while back, I read in Honda鈥檚 official press release for the 2022 models that one of the changes were more refined 1st and 2nd gears on the DCT. The release didn鈥檛 indicate specifically what they did or why this was changed of course, but it makes sense now based on what you are saying.
 

Premium Member
2022 CRF1100 ATAS ES DCT
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I鈥檓 100% sure that a while back, I read in Honda鈥檚 official press release for the 2022 models that one of the changes were more refined 1st and 2nd gears on the DCT. The release didn鈥檛 indicate specifically what they did or why this was changed of course, but it makes sense now based on what you are saying.
There were refinements made but what they were I don't know and sadly because my 2021 seems to have been different from most others I can't really say how much of a difference it would normally make, I can say however that my 2021 and 2022 couldn't be any more different.
 

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I鈥檓 100% sure that a while back, I read in Honda鈥檚 official press release for the 2022 models that one of the changes were more refined 1st and 2nd gears on the DCT. The release didn鈥檛 indicate specifically what they did or why this was changed of course, but it makes sense now based on what you are saying.

I can't be bothered to troll the net for the articles but you are correct, the pre-release press statements and also reviews of the 2022 (DCT specifically) I read, referred to the changes Honda had made to combat customer complaints of initial throttle response in slow manoeuvres........the independent reviews translated that as stopping the surges of the DCT. Besides the colour changes, these were THE main update for the 2022 models.
 

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I can't be bothered to troll the net for the articles but you are correct, the pre-release press statements and also reviews of the 2022 (DCT specifically) I read, referred to the changes Honda had made to combat customer complaints of initial throttle response in slow manoeuvres........the independent reviews translated that as stopping the surges of the DCT. Besides the colour changes, these were THE main update for the 2022 models.
I test rode the 2022 and the problem they have addressed (and improved) is not the surging/hesitation which was just as bad on the 2022 demo bike as my 2019 bike. There was less of a jerk when the bike changed down or up in the lower gears, but that's not the same as surging/hesitation when you are trying to hold a given speed in the same gear.
Mike
 

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I test rode the 2022 and the problem they have addressed (and improved) is not the surging/hesitation which was just as bad on the 2022 demo bike as my 2019 bike. There was less of a jerk when the bike changed down or up in the lower gears, but that's not the same as surging/hesitation when you are trying to hold a given speed in the same gear.
Mike
Hmmm - That's not how I interpreted the info I read about the changes to smoothing out slow/initial manoeuvres on the 22, but interesting how you experienced the same surging issue in the new bike. I suppose on that basis it is going to be a topic of discussion for a while......as more units get sold and real world testing begins?
 

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On my 2022 DCT, if I know I'm going to be maneuvering at slower speeds/tight spaces, I have programmed a User Mode to have least power (4 bars). It doesn't really reduce power, it just reduces throttle response so it's not so touchy.
 

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Actually when I was growing up, I knew many, many guys that used their left foot on the cars brake pedal with an automatic. And what many of them never realized (unless I or someone who paid attention was following them for some reason) was that, their left foot, even with a slight amount of pressure on the pedal, caused the brake lights to illuminate. And that was with full acceleration. For some odd reason, many guys learned to drive automatics with BOTH FEET. I have never ever done that. Even in critical backing or close-quarter vehicle ops, I've only used ONE foot.
I would imagine those same people also rest their left foot on the clutch pedal when operating a car with a manual transmission, then wonder why the clutch keeps suffering premature failure. I will sometimes use my left foot on the brake while maneuvering in tight quarters or on a slope to keep the vehicle from rolling backwards. Once the situation is over the left foot stays on the floor away from the brake pedal. With many of the newer vehicles becoming so limited for space near the pedals, drivers need to ensure their right foot is on the brake pedal in such a way that they are not pushing the gas pedal when trying to apply the brakes.
 
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