Honda Africa Twin Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of July's Ride of the Month Challenge! Theme: Drop it like it's hot!
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After honda telling me the 2018 poor running at low speed and in traffic is characteristic of this bike decided to dig deeper.
So finding out the catalytic new version is closed loop. I have fitted a booster plug whilst this helped smooth the revs a bit, it’s dependant on temp sometimes does nothing.
I bought a oxygen sensor remover and it worked bike ran great. But then the engine check light came on as the 2018 model needs not just connection but a wave signal after 3 minutes. At first left it but it’s annoying! I read an article that suggested a diode so I connected on using the oxygen sensor and it’s worked no check light now and running much better. It still not as good as removed as some adjustment is happening but not as much and no light :smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
I have the 2018 ATAS and as you say the low speed fuelling is jerky. I thought I had got used to it and it stopped bothering me.
Then a few weeks ago I started riding a 2018 CRF250l Rally. Boy is that bike smooth at low speeds. Now I realise just how bad the AT is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
Guys, what drive mode are you using in traffic (and subsequently low speed)?

Indeed my ATAS is jurky at Tour and Urban, but I consider this natural; in those modes the reaction of the throttle is very agreesive and it should be. In traffic I switch to Gravel mode and the engine is very smooth in fueling.
@BigKev: I do not think that the AT is bad; it is a totally different thing a 1Lt engine compared to .25lt engine at low speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
I'm surprised no-one has tried a powercommander yet. I have tried a rapidbike easy and Hilltop's ecu remap neither of which did anything at all for my 2017 bike. I think if I do trade in for the 2018/19 bike (by no means certain because of this fuelling problem), then I would try the powercommander. It worked like magic for me 10 years ago on a Versys, and didn't seem to bother my insurance company when I told them I was fitting it for comfort rather than performance.
Looks like powercommander are actually listing a kit for the latest bikes.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/products.aspx?mk=19&mdl=3577&yr=6956
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
Rapid bike evo it´s globally better than the power commander 5.
Till they start to sell powervision also for the AT , than will be another story.

Last but not least i´m wondering people still trow away money buying rapid bike easy or booster plug .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Are you guys suffering poor running at low speed all on DCT's?
I haven't noticed anything on my 2017 manual, it actually feels very docile and precise at low speed and a quick rev gets you past the cars quickly. But then by slipping the clutch or feathering it, it does smooth things out naturally when going slowly through London traffic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Are you guys suffering poor running at low speed all on DCT's?.
No, smooth as silk at walking pace. Any kind of jerkiness is caused by the throttle not being held perfectly steady. It takes a bit of practice. Something like the kaoko that increases the friction would be helpful I guess.
All this talk about fuelling/poor running, isn't something I seem to experience, but then I am coming from a bike whose FI was designed sometime before 1993.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
No, smooth as silk at walking pace. Any kind of jerkiness is caused by the throttle not being held perfectly steady. It takes a bit of practice. Something like the kaoko that increases the friction would be helpful I guess.
All this talk about fuelling/poor running, isn't something I seem to experience, but then I am coming from a bike whose FI was designed sometime before 1993.
Haha I hear you on that. Coming from the 2004 Varadero, which actually I found very smooth too, even at very slow speed, the AT is even better.
I wonder if the people with problems have anything in common with their bikes. Could aftermarket end cans change anything? Or difference between UK/US models?


I guess it also depends a lot on individual feel. I recall seeing posts where everyone was saying "oh the DCT is so smooth when it changes gear the bike doesn't move" etc. I find the manual is the same if you do it right, barely any sway or suspension change on smooth shifts. And being able to drive in 5th at 45 miles and hour is something I could never do with the Varadero lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Ive had my DCT ATAS for a year now, I’ve ridden it in all weathers, hot and cold in the UK, its a great bike and the dct is generally very smooth, going from 1st to 2nd can sometime be not quite as good as all the other gears, but the gearbox has no effect on the slow speed jerkiness, infact i think that’s the wrong description, its more the a hunting feeling. I think possibly some people are maybe getting jerkiness mixed up with the gearbox/clutch take up on the DCT bikes.

My issue with the feeling is the feel of the bike in a 30 mph or 20 mph speed limit, where the bike feels like its detach from the rear wheel/throttle, because of the lean running. Its not a great enjoyable feeling, IMHO i would say the issue is fuelling (running lean and fine throttle control with the TBW) although i do think that maybe the firing order of the twin and even the chain adjustment and whether its got tight and loose point, could exacerbate the issue.

I am no novice and do not for one moment believe this issue has anything to do with my riding ability (even though i say so myself, i would like to think i am a very accomplished and experienced rider with 36 years experience). Riding in gravel mode slightly improves the condition as this changes the amount you need to open the throttle. Ive ridden a BMW 1250 GS and the fuelling was amazingly smooth (I had a 2004 1200 and that was awfull, but my 2008 was vastly improved).

It seems very odd that a Hilltop remap seems to help the manual bikes, although i only know of the earlier AT having this and they don’t have the TBW. But HT cannot do anything that improves a DCT bike, maybe the mapping is linked to the gearbox mapping and cannot be improved enough to have any perceived effect on the slow speed feel.

I would love to get to the bottom of this issue as the ATAS is an otherwise great bike, i feel that riding style may have a huge impact on whether you have this issue or not. If like me you ride very smoothly with small light use of the throttle slow speed limits, you will feel this problem, but if your more a on or off type rider, who maybe is a little less observant of the speed limits, you may not notice this issue so much or maybe not at all. We are all different and some are more sensitive to relatively small changes, as well as every bike will run slightly differently depending on condition of the engine etc. I also feel that the ambient air temperature and humidity level affect it as well, as I’ve ridden on different days on the same route, but the temperature and humidity have been different and there is a noticeable difference.

There are plenty of other bikes out there that have similar fuelling issues due to the eu emission regulations, some seem to find solutions and hopefully so will we, but I wouldn’t hold your breath concerning honda do so, it is what it is and I’m sure they consider it acceptable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
I’m not sure if we are all on the same book page, so to speak! I have a 2018 DCT ATAS, no problem at all controlling it at very slow speed, manoeuvring etc. The main issue I have with the fuelling, is at a constant speed, i.e, in 30, 40 mph UK speed limits. The bike feels like its constantly hunting, this is the area I’d really like to address. Now before anybody suggest that I shouldn’t ride at a constant speed, firstly my job requires I maintain a clean license, but also I don’t want to be speeding around everywhere, either on a fully opened throttle or closed throttle. I also have over 35 years of bike riding, so I have plenty of experience of good and bad bikes.

I have seriously been thinking of trading my bike for something else, but due to Honda UK and selected dealers heavily discounting the ATAS recently, it has seriously affected the values of used bikes. I have decided to stick with the ATAS, i’m hoping that in the near future, there will be something that will improve the fuelling. Other than this, its still a great bike and as has proven by others remarks, it doesn’t effect everybody’s riding styles!

I certainly don’t think the Africa Twin is a bad bike, just that the Euro emissions do cause issues for manufacturers and they kinda have there hands tied on this issue. Admittedly, some manufacturers deal with it better than others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Yes, Hovis and Shedracer, I think we are talking about at least two different issues.

I just responded to the "Unsteady Throttle" thread a little while ago. But that has to do with the sensitivity of the throttle at low speeds (or low revs, anyway) I think some people, myself included, experience.

But this issue you guys describe (and I said it before, months ago, in a similar thread) I have personally never experienced with my Manual ATAS.

I have had no "poor fueling" issues. Or what some have called "power curve" issues. Just the sensitive throttle and I feel like I've tamed that well. And I too, like riding around at constant speeds.

But for what it's worth (and it probably has nothing to do with what you guys are experiencing) but I will add that I went to the low-octane cheap gas after my first fill-up. My bike likes the cheap stuff - for me it's BP 87 ((R+M)/2 which is actually a 86.5 U.S. Octane Rating if you read their datasheet). And I have to wonder if the US bikes are tuned a bit differently than the European ones...

Gary

...
 
  • Like
Reactions: prama
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top