[48146]

I think you miss interpreted my post And inserted you own personal bias in there. Unconscious bias is a real thing. I ain’t mad at you. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

 

[Lee R]

Both require Honda speciality tools per the service manual. I'm sure a clever mechanic can improvise some/all of these but a dealer will not assume that liability. Regardless these won't be available without ordering from outside a Honda dealer and then likely only in areas that have enough Africa Twins to make it worth while to purchase these.

As you can see for the speciality part prices it's over $500 for a conventional bike in "special" tools or over $1100 for a ES model. I'm sure plenty of dealers will make up all kinds of excuses to avoid those costs for a handful of fork seal replacements a year.

Clearly Honda has a whole second business in forced special tools sales for dealers to support these bikes. And that's probably a good chunk of that 100+ dollars an hour in labor is supporting this mess.


Conventional Model Tools:

Spring collar holder [2] 070MF-MBZC110 or 07AMC-MFJA100 (U.S.A. only). $160 (us part)
Stopper plate [6] 070MF-MBZC130 or 07AMB-KZ3A100 (U.S.A. only). $ 150 (us part)
Fork seal driver, 45.2 mm [5] 07KMD-KZ30100 or 07KMD-KZ301 OA (U.S.A. only) $153
Damper rod holder [3] 070MF-MBZC120 or 070MF-MBZA120 (U.S.A. only) $76.31

$539.31 plus shipping.

ES Model:

Fork bolt wrench [3] 070MA-MKS0100 $160.91
Lock nut wrench, 50 mm [4] 07WMA-KZ30100 $80.63
^ for the giant 50mm top nut prob a conventional 50mm open end wrench would work, it's just huge and probably hard to get in there and not sure about the lock nut, is that some weird security feature to protect the expensive solenoid?
Pin type wrench. 070MA-MKS0200 $184.72
^ for the Solenoid removal
Spring collar holder [2] 070MF-MBZC110 or 07AMC-MFJA100 (U.S.A. only)
Stopper plate [6] 070MF-MBZC130 or 07AMB-KZ3A100 (U.S.A. only).
Rod guide wrench [2] 070MB-MKS0100 $144.31
^for inner rod and spring removal
Fork seal driver, 45.2 mm [5] 07KMD-KZ30100 or 07KMD-KZ301 OA (U.S.A. only)
Damper rod holder [3] 070MF-MBZC120 or 070MF-MBZA120 (U.S.A. only)

$ 1109.88 plus shipping.

 

[irsh]

Honda seems to be trying to add some of the wiz-bang stuff the Euro-bikes brag about. Even Honda is going to have some teething problems. Add in the current state of the supply chain, that no-one expected when this bike was in development, and we have the current ****-show. Honda is obviously not infallible.

 

[Lee R]

I'm really curious what a KTM ES suspension or BMW or Harley Pan Am needs to service the ES model bikes?

Can't find any for Pan America which also uses Showa semi active ES which seems very similar to the AT. HD costs quite a lot less for whole fork replacement through, 660 for one side and 1200 for the other. ATAS is @ 1400.

If they don't use any special tools that's a serious detractor for buying a Honda. Plus hydraulic valves!

 

[Sled]

Honda seems to be trying to add some of the wiz-bang stuff the Euro-bikes brag about. Even Honda is going to have some teething problems. Add in the current state of the supply chain, that no-one expected when this bike was in development, and we have the current ****-show. Honda is obviously not infallible.

Yah, the raw materials supply chain is also still struggling, but coming back. It took Honda oz 16 weeks to get me a set of pannier rubbers and
more recently 6 weeks to get a clutch cable. WTH

 

[Lee R]

Not to beleaguer the point, but many of us bought Honda due to the reputation for solid machines and parts availability. Do the other Euro bikes have similar issues? Absolutely they do...that's why we bought Honda. And, to your question is it reasonable to expect a parts supply? In my book it absolutely is. I make no apology for that demand and give no quarter to corporate bottom lines either. It's business. If you can't supply, get out of the **** business and stop wasting our time and money. It's unethical and companies that take that approach to business deserve to go broke.

This gets so much worse if I find out the Pan America which also uses Showa ES requires no speciality tools. It really looks like Honda makes a boatload in these specialty tools. What is the total across all the Honda dealers that might need to work on an Africa twin?

1100 to change a fork seal x 1000 potential dealers 1.1 million in specialty tools that look pretty inexpensive to manufacture.

If the Pan America had CarPlay....... I'd trade DCT for hydraulic valves, I hate checking/adjusting them and I won't pay the 1k every 16k miles to have a dealer do it, who probably doesn't have the speciality tools 🥴

 

[Lee R]

Yah, the raw materials supply chain is also still struggling, but coming back. It took Honda oz 16 weeks to get me a set of pannier rubbers and
more recently 6 weeks to get a clutch cable. WTH

2 months for a Shad top box and 2 months for the panniers. 3 Months for Denali lights so far this year in wait time. 2 months for outback mototek crash bars and center stand.

Basically if a part goes on the bike it's a few months before it's going anywhere again.

 

[48146]

Yah, the raw materials supply chain is also still struggling, but coming back. It took Honda oz 16 weeks to get me a set of pannier rubbers and
more recently 6 weeks to get a clutch cable. WTH

You are correct. I am looking at 6 weeks back order for a center stand.

 

[Lee R]

ANDREANI CARTRIDGE - AFRICA TWIN CRF 1000/1100 ADV. Front Fork

ANDREANI ADJUSTABLE CARTRIDGE - HONDA CRF 1000 / 1100 Africa Twin Adventure OEM Front Fork (SHOWA 45) MISANO cartridge with hydraulic adjustment for OEM fork, developed by the Andreani Group and equipped with a sophisticated hydraulic system that guarantees exceptional cornering and braking...

shop.motorbikeadventure.com

Backup plans, just replace the internals for like $600. Cheaper than buying specialty tools or a new solenoid. Add an Ohlin's rear shock for another 1k and it's a little more than a single fork replacement to just revert to a conventional suspension set for your weight. Set the TFT to ES not there and live a happy life.

 

[TwinWrangler]

I think you miss interpreted my post And inserted you own personal bias in there. Unconscious bias is a real thing. I ain’t mad at you. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

Yep you betcha...how could I know what I don't know??? You are so right!

 

[HackJockey]

Well, it is a sad day.

While I absolutely love my AT, I have no choice but to sell. Honda made an amazing motorcycle, complete with a fantastic electronic suspension system...that they can't fix. It requires 'special' Honda tools to service the suspension. Those tools do not exist, according to Honda Canada.

The ES has taken a beating over 52,000km of on and off road riding. Zero issues until a seal went. But, being unable to do basic service on it in a dealership, let alone on the road, makes it a massive liability. I knew I was taking a risk buying such a kitted out bike, but I never imagined the downfall would be Honda making a special tool that Honda then forgot to make.

It is unfortunate, considering one of my reasons for choosing a Honda was their global parts and service availability.

I own the base model therefore don't have that concern. I'm not a hardcore off road guy. To adjust my suspension I ride over a series of speed bumps I know of. The sweet spot is when you don't bottom out or get launched off the seat. Whats the advantage of the electronic suspension in the first place? I honestly don't know.

 

[irsh]

I own the base model therefore don't have that concern. I'm not a hardcore off road guy. To adjust my suspension I ride over a series of speed bumps I know of. The sweet spot is when you don't bottom out or get launched off the seat. Whats the advantage of the electronic suspension in the first place? I honestly don't know.

EERA Suspension

 

[dwayneh]

Yes it must be frustrating and painful... be persistent and bug them, every day if needed..."They can't just walk away" .... sorry for your pain 🙄

I just got my new AT last week... will most definitely buy additional 4yrs of extended warranty.

How old is your AT and are you out of e warranty?

I too purchased the extended warranty, four years. I thought that the extended warranty for the Honda was a waste of money... its a Honda after all. Kind of glad now I did.

 

[HackJockey]

EERA Suspension

Yes, I understand the obvious sells points but unless you're dramatically changing your riding situation several times a day I don't understand the necessity. Not being a professional rider I honestly can't understand the usefulness of all that complexity. But that's just me.

 

[Lee R]

Yes, I understand the obvious sells points but unless you're dramatically changing your riding situation several times a day I don't understand the necessity. Not being a professional rider I honestly can't understand the usefulness of all that complexity. But that's just me.

For me it’s being able to instantly switch from soft for bumpy roads to firm for twisties. The original AT I rode I dismissed because it was too soft and a mess for my riding on twisty roads. I kinda get best of both with a click of a button now which is very valuable to me. I’m actually switching mine up all the time in different situations. I first experienced electronic suspension on a BMW R1200RT and was hooked.

 

[Beowulf]

Late to the conversation, but...

The broken off fairing support bracket on my 2021 Adv Sport ES described in my post here:

Link

Really pissed me off.

It requires a special tool to fix (TiG Welder), and the fabrication of a new solid steel support brace to weld inside the crappy 2mm thick POS sheet metal bracket that Honda deemed "good enough" to support a 28 lb. Instrument Cluster/Fairing Pod.

Bike had less than 9,000 miles on it, probably 7,000 of those on highway trips back and fourth from PNW to AZ, rest on "interesting" dirt roads, not off road.

Failure happened less than 30 miles from my house, so the bike is apart in my garage, while I brush up on my TiG welding skills, prior to lighting up the bike's steering head.

If this had of happened on a major adv ride, I likely could have ratchet strapped stuff together to keep going, but I for sure would have been cursing uncle Sochiro for the rest of the ride home.

The bike has been converted to a sidecar rig with a leading link front end. No way Honda would touch it for warranty in that case. I did not bother to ask, since they are pretty clear on that point in their manual, and it is a few months out of warranty, anyway.

There is no honor in this design, only shame.

I think my next bike will likely be a BMW GSA, with all their expensive idiosyncrasies. I have had two Africa Twins, now, loved them for the most part, but having to redesign a fairing mount and weld it up to the steering head, after relatively light use is completely unacceptable.

 

[irsh]

Yes, I understand the obvious sells points but unless you're dramatically changing your riding situation several times a day I don't understand the necessity. Not being a professional rider I honestly can't understand the usefulness of all that complexity. But that's just me.

It's not just the simple preload changes and damping adjustments for pavement to off-road. It's dynamically making adjustments all the time based on usage.

Just like the DCT, many of us don't understand the "usefulness of all that complexity" either.

 

[Beowulf]

Late to the conversation, but...

The broken off fairing support bracket on my 2021 Adv Sport ES described in my post here:

Link

Really pissed me off.

It requires a special tool to fix (TiG Welder), and the fabrication of a new solid steel support brace to weld inside the crappy 2mm thick POS sheet metal bracket that Honda deemed "good enough" to support a 28 lb. Instrument Cluster/Fairing Pod.

Bike had less than 9,000 miles on it, probably 7,000 of those on highway trips back and fourth from PNW to AZ, rest on "interesting" dirt roads, not off road.

Failure happened less than 30 miles from my house, so the bike is apart in my garage, while I brush up on my TiG welding skills, prior to lighting up the bike's steering head.

If this had of happened on a major adv ride, I likely could have ratchet strapped stuff together to keep going, but I for sure would have been cursing uncle Sochiro for the rest of the ride home.

The bike has been converted to a sidecar rig with a leading link front end. No way Honda would touch it for warranty in that case. I did not bother to ask, since they are pretty clear on that point in their manual, and it is a few months out of warranty, anyway.

There is no honor in this design, only shame.

I think my next bike will likely be a BMW GSA, with all their expensive idiosyncrasies. I have had two Africa Twins, now, loved them for the most part, but having to redesign a fairing mount and weld it up to the steering head, after relatively light use is completely unacceptable.

View attachment 79884


View attachment 79886


View attachment 79887

View attachment 79888

View attachment 79889

Fixed it this evening...

Turned the pathetic little OEM bracket into a gusset for a more manly bracket by cutting out the spacers.

New gusset just fit over a piece of 3/8" steel...

Made a blank... Angle grinder time.

Test fit..

More grinding, then tacked in place.

Yes, I am aware that the welds are not pretty... deep penetration and good wetting, though.

Krylon kures all ills...

POD didn't fall off when I bolted it on...

Instrument POD reinstalled on new bracket.

Made most of the welds in short bursts, with cooling time/fan in between. Left the steering head bearings alone; got warm, but not hot. I could touch the bearing race area without a glove after each weld.

 

[DoubleThumper]

The patience for your projects never cease to amaze me @Beowulf .

 

[Moto Vita]

Fixed it this evening...

Turned the pathetic little OEM bracket into a gusset for a more manly bracket by cutting out the spacers.
View attachment 79937

New gusset just fit over a piece of 3/8" steel...
View attachment 79938

Made a blank... Angle grinder time.
View attachment 79939

Test fit..
View attachment 79940


More grinding, then tacked in place.
View attachment 79941
View attachment 79942

Yes, I am aware that the welds are not pretty... deep penetration and good wetting, though.
View attachment 79943

Krylon kures all ills...
View attachment 79944

POD didn't fall off when I bolted it on...
View attachment 79946

Instrument POD reinstalled on new bracket.
View attachment 79945

Made most of the welds in short bursts, with cooling time/fan in between. Left the steering head bearings alone; got warm, but not hot. I could touch the bearing race area without a glove after each weld.

Did you disconnect any/all electronic components before welding on the frame?