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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Good update.
Just to be clear what exactly did they replace under warranty?
My dust seals were shot, fork seals were shot, and bushings showed similar wear (although less of it) to yours.
I put in SKF dust and fork seals - work like charm and have noticeably less stiction (even moving them by hand you can feel it) and riding is noticeable (although not night and day).
Absolutely zero weeping from the fork seals this time unlike the Honda/Showa OEM ones that leaked several times before being replaced (25,000 kilometres).
Which dealer by the way? Since we're both in Calgary.
 

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Let me say that I changed the fork oil last May at 20000ml/32000km and I also found some mild wear within the forks, in the rear part in the position of the lower clamp, but the oil was not contaminated and I did not experience any stiction. Having changed the oil, I installed the forks at 90 degrees difference from the original position, so that another adjacent part gets worn in the next period. I also torqued up the lower triples to 16Nm instead of the 25Nm suggested by Honda (KTM suggests 15Nm for those bolts in the 950/990 forks).


With this arrangement, I believe I will go up to a relatively high mileage (80K ml?) before I need to re-coat/re-anodise the forks. I should add that I use my bike quite a lot off-road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
parts replaced are listed out on the blog c/w part numbers, but to sum up:
-2018 outer tubes
-oil and dust seals..btw...dust seals have been updated for 2018, but cannot be had with the oil seals...I didn't quite get the reasoning
-both bushings

I bought with Pro Am. I have a sympathetic ear at Turples. Saves me the explaining, and getting pissed off.

did you look at your tubes? at 25k..they are prob..toast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hi George,
I can only speak from experience. Mine were toast at 11k km. My buddy's were toast at 10k km.
If you look at my pics, I don't see how the 2016/2017 forks can last more than 15k km at moderate use.
you can clearly see the coating gone in the one tube. The other one had a bigger chunk missing.
Fork insepction at 13k
 

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Thanks for that. I'll talk to Rocky Mountain then.
I didn't see any of the wear that you've shown in your shocks - no wearing of the coating.
Bushings were a bit 'rashed' but okay in my case.
I wonder if this will turn into a widespread warranty issue. I can't imagine that these forks are only designed to last 10,000 kilometres on a round the world bike. Could they?

parts replaced are listed out on the blog c/w part numbers, but to sum up:
-2018 outer tubes
-oil and dust seals..btw...dust seals have been updated for 2018, but cannot be had with the oil seals...I didn't quite get the reasoning
-both bushings

I bought with Pro Am. I have a sympathetic ear at Turples. Saves me the explaining, and getting pissed off.

did you look at your tubes? at 25k..they are prob..toast.
 

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Scary ****. What were Honda thinking. I have 6000km and already looking at replacing the dust seals for the Kawasaki ones....I've owned over 15 bikes in the last 10-12 years, I've never ever seen anything like this. In fact, I never even had forks serviced except to have a cartridge kit installed in my Scrambler.


I think I'll contact them to see if they make these kind of tubes for the Africa Twin. The Ohlin forks are like 3000$ and I dont find the stock ones bad (aside from the quality).
https://www.konflictmotorsports.com/suspension-store/type-3-class-ii-black-hard-anodize
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for that. I'll talk to Rocky Mountain then.
I didn't see any of the wear that you've shown in your shocks - no wearing of the coating.
Bushings were a bit 'rashed' but okay in my case.
I wonder if this will turn into a widespread warranty issue. I can't imagine that these forks are only designed to last 10,000 kilometres on a round the world bike. Could they?
No worries. The tubes are loose in my garage now. You're welcome to come by and have a look at them.
What you need to look for is where the oil will stick to the outer tube. I didn't see it at first, but when I put the flashlight on it, it was there plain as day.
Your bushings look fine.

This will not get anywhere unless people start screaming bloody murder to Honda.
I know for a fact that Honda Australia has called it 'regular wear and tear' which complete BS, and have not done any warranty claims.
I went the other way. I want to enjoy the bike, and not think about honda's **** ups

Looking at the referrals and stats on my blog, quite a few different folks are coming to look at the posts, and finding stuff out.

Myself and Richard have got warranty through Turps...but only because he used to work there, and they are willing to listen. Like I said, it's possible that Pro am would go to bat for me, they did tell me when my first oil seal leaked that they would warranty it..but I fixed it with a seal saver.
I've had not had good experience with Rocky, so avoid it like the plague.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Scary ****. What were Honda thinking. I have 6000km and already looking at replacing the dust seals for the Kawasaki ones....I've owned over 15 bikes in the last 10-12 years, I've never ever seen anything like this. In fact, I never even had forks serviced except to have a cartridge kit installed in my Scrambler.


I think I'll contact them to see if they make these kind of tubes for the Africa Twin. The Ohlin forks are like 3000$ and I dont find the stock ones bad (aside from the quality).
https://www.konflictmotorsports.com/suspension-store/type-3-class-ii-black-hard-anodize
These are CR500 forks...90s vintage with new radial fork bottoms.
I've covered the issues on the forks. Major issue are five or so.
The kawasaki Oil seals are double lipped...:laugh: the oem ones are ok.
The issue is the dust seal with a weak spring. When swapping oil seals to the kwak units, save the spring from the HOnda, and double up on the honda dust seal. I'll be good then.
Ohlins...ya, add another grand, ask me how I know. That said, they are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

I'll have the new bits back from turps soon, I'll post up a vid, and go through the various failings from honda. Stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Scary ****. What were Honda thinking. I have 6000km and already looking at replacing the dust seals for the Kawasaki ones....I've owned over 15 bikes in the last 10-12 years, I've never ever seen anything like this. In fact, I never even had forks serviced except to have a cartridge kit installed in my Scrambler.


I think I'll contact them to see if they make these kind of tubes for the Africa Twin. The Ohlin forks are like 3000$ and I dont find the stock ones bad (aside from the quality).
https://www.konflictmotorsports.com/suspension-store/type-3-class-ii-black-hard-anodize
Konflikts price...is that per leg? or for the set...I don't follow. Why would you do annodizing for one tube...put a price as a set man...I'm sure one can get annodizing cheaper in town, or in Vancouver. I've talked to a guy in Van on ADVR, and it can be done likely for half cost, and avoid the cross border bullshit shipping charges
 

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Konflikts price...is that per leg? or for the set...I don't follow. Why would you do annodizing for one tube...put a price as a set man...I'm sure one can get annodizing cheaper in town, or in Vancouver. I've talked to a guy in Van on ADVR, and it can be done likely for half cost, and avoid the cross border bullshit shipping charges

Yeah the price is to have both anodized. Theres certainly cheaper options locally, but not all anodization is equal, specially with black, they can turn bronze or purple in no time when the anodization isn't UV resistant. Not saying Konflicts is best, just saying if you want to have them done, make sure they use proper anodization process so that they don't fade in the first months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah the price is to have both anodized. Theres certainly cheaper options locally, but not all anodization is equal, specially with black, they can turn bronze or purple in no time when the anodization isn't UV resistant. Not saying Konflicts is best, just saying if you want to have them done, make sure they use proper anodization process so that they don't fade in the first months.
so for 250 he does both legs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I wonder what forks could be a direct swap without requiring shims...
technically any 48mm forks would fit, or close to fit. It's the f.ing around with the brakes and wheel that's the PITA. Totallly not worth it IMO.
Camel adv did it...it seemed far from simple. Then had to go through the exercise of having to revalve and re-spring a fork that was meant for a dirt bike to suite a adv bike.
 

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I wouldn't bother getting re-annodizing, as no one knows for certain how long that would hold up either. For roughly $300 you can buy the new 2018 model outer tubes, which have been upgraded to Kashima coating.
 

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I wouldn't bother getting re-annodizing, as no one knows for certain how long that would hold up either. For roughly $300 you can buy the new 2018 model outer tubes, which have been upgraded to Kashima coating.

In the UK they cost £310 or $400 each, re-annodizing will certainly be way cheaper.
 

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A review of Honda and 21st Moto Ltd in Swanley
Generally nice staff but their service technical ability is quite frankly appalling. I own a 2016 Honda Africa Twin that has developed a fork wear issue that is currently extensively discussed on Africa Twins forums and the internet which results in a deterioration in their performance which can be felt when riding the bike on uneven road surfaces. The technician at 21st Moto road tested my bike and reported the ride and handling was ok. I know my bike and it clearly does not ride ok, if it did I would not have taken it into them in the first place. The forks were inspected and clearly showed premature wear of the anodised coating on the inside of the fork tube. The fork bushes were also worn. Pictures were taken and a report was forwarded to Honda UK technical department. They responded by saying they had no knowledge of this problem and completely ignored the photos showing premature wear on the fork stanchions and worn bushes, and stated the technician had said the bike road ok so they advised changing the oil and fitting a new seal kit. The technician by the way does not own or ride an Africa Twin on a regular basis. Unbelievably with the knowledge of the service manager Kevin the forks were put back together not only ignoring the obvious wear to the stanchions but the technician re fitted the clearly worn bushes as well. To top things off 21st Moto Ltd charged me £290.93 for this diabolical service. When questioned why had they refitted the forks using clearly worn fork bushes the service manager looked very sheepish and said that Honda had only advised to replace the fork oil. What an absolute joke! So to get things straight the service manager and technician at 21st Moto Ltd are happy to put worn parts back in your bike and then charge a small fortune for doing so. I have covered 14 miles on the bike since getting it back. The forks are still not performing as they should do so I have now taken them to HM Racing in Edenbridge. The technician there pulled the forks apart and was shocked to find the oil was already contaminated and even more shocked to find that the technician at 21st Moto Ltd had put worn bushes back in the forks. They recommend new fork stanchions or at least re anodise the current ones, replacing the worn bushes and re seal the forks all after 14 miles since the £290.93 service by 21st Moto Ltd. My advice is to stay well clear of 21st Moto Ltd and don’t be taken in by Honda’s hype, believe me they are no longer making quality motorcycles.
 

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hi George,
I can only speak from experience. Mine were toast at 11k km. My buddy's were toast at 10k km.
If you look at my pics, I don't see how the 2016/2017 forks can last more than 15k km at moderate use.
you can clearly see the coating gone in the one tube. The other one had a bigger chunk missing.

Hi Greg, a belated reply to this. I don't know why but the internal wear of my stanchions was nowhere as bad as yours, yours look shocking :surprise: I take my bike a lot off-road and I also went to Morocco and all the way to Kyrgyzstan / Mongolia fully loaded (I did 28K miles in 1.5 year of ownership). But given that you seem to have managed to get new stanchions under warranty, I may try to do the same in the UK. The dealer I bought the bike from have unfortunately closed down (Metropolis, central London) but I will try another dealer I know well. I will take the forks apart by myself after I first talk to them to avoid the stupid labour rate Millieman paid, I am very curious to see if they will agree to the change. The unfortunate(/fortunate) thing is that I do not experience any stiction yet, so they may say "since it behaves fine, no reason to change them".


And btw, great blog and videos, tnx :smile2:
 
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