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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
everything electrical was totally dead
My garage is not heated and I left my bike without the trickle charger on it for a few weeks while we had snow/ice then had a problem starting it. The cold really kills off these lithium batteries. I kept it on the trickle charger since then. In the summer when I ride it more often I'll leave it off. If I leave it more than a couple weeks I'll put the charger back on it.

As with most manufacturers they calculate the minimum required size of battery and put those in the machines.
 

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My garage is not heated and I left my bike without the trickle charger on it for a few weeks while we had snow/ice then had a problem starting it. The cold really kills off these lithium batteries. I kept it on the trickle charger since then. In the summer when I ride it more often I'll leave it off. If I leave it more than a couple weeks I'll put the charger back on it.

As with most manufacturers they calculate the minimum required size of battery and put those in the machines.
I read somewhere that if the lithium battery is cold, leaving the bike on for a short period of time, without trying to start the engine, will apparently create the right draw conditions that it will warm the battery up enough to start the bike. I noticed it helps with cold starts when camping and the temperature drops significantly overnight. If I go straight to starting the engine it can hesitate a second. Whereas if I turn the key and let it sit for 30 seconds, it starts up normally.
 

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The latest on my situation is this:
  • Service person I've been dealing with tells me I was told in a phone conversation that this would be the case. (That they would take the bike apart and "test it" then order the part.)
    • I never talked to anyone over the phone. Only eMail and in person on the day I rode it in.
    • What kind of idiot do they think I am that I would tell them I was riding it in and expecting it to take 4-5 hours then I would ride it home? I was very clear on my intentions.
    • This story stinks and at best shows a sever lack of communication and at worst dishonesty.
  • They close at 6pm and he called me at 5:40pm to tell me the bike was ready yesterday.
  • Today's weather is crap so I'm not getting a ride then riding in this snow and wind garbage.
  • They are closed Friday and reopen Monday.
I eMailed Honda asking for compensation for the travel expenses before I even left the dealer on Tuesday. I just received a response where they tell me to ask for a loaner and if not that then I can submit my expenses to Honda for "consideration". Better than a "no" but I am not hopeful.

The whole reason I did it this week was I am off. If I knew this would be the case then I wouldn't have done it yet. I am back to work on Monday so now have to take time away from work because they lied to me. Now I'm afraid they rushed the job even though I was again explicit that I did not want the job rushed as it is important to clean the tank out to the best of their ability.

I just might sell this thing now that I'm not sure I can trust it. I love this bike but I don't want to be left stranded due to a fuelling issue out in the middle of nowhere.
That is a bizarre story that they are telling you. What exactly is the "test" they are performing? Does this motorcycle VIN fall under the recalled models? If YES perform the recall work if NO inform the owner?

The whole test thing sounds like fiction. Did you ask Honda if they authorized any "test" as a part of the recall procedure?

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My garage is not heated and I left my bike without the trickle charger on it for a few weeks while we had snow/ice then had a problem starting it. The cold really kills off these lithium batteries. I kept it on the trickle charger since then. In the summer when I ride it more often I'll leave it off. If I leave it more than a couple weeks I'll put the charger back on it.

As with most manufacturers they calculate the minimum required size of battery and put those in the machines.
I think they calculate based on the minimum capacity to start in warm climates where the temperature is a lot warmer than early spring and late fall in Canada. The battery box usually doesn't permit a battery with larger physical dimensions either. Add cold engine oil and cold battery and you are working against a stacked deck.
 

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The strange thing with my battery was it started the bike fine. I never had any issues with it until this time and it has never had a charger of any kind on it even though the dealer had installed an optimate connector to the battery. My battery died while the bike was running and shut everything down instantly. There was no warning, then all of a sudden nothing. The motor stopped and there was no dash light or warning lights - everything went dead instantly. It was idling at the time but I've since thought what would it have done if I was going down the highway?

I was by the dealer today and talked to the service manager. He did tell me that they couldn't check if anything else electrical was wrong until they had a new battery to put in it. They should have more answers next week and also expecting the Guglatech to arrive early next week. I don't believe the recall work will solve the tank issue so I am confident fixing the problem with the Guglatech is the solution as well as occasionally inspecting the tank. My confidence in Honda has diminished greatly but I don't see very many favorable options for me at this time. I have so few km's on it and added so many accessories and the extended warranty that I would take such a beating if I considered changing to something else. The other problem is I don't think there is anything made nowadays that is completely trouble free and near 100% dependable. Once my issue is solved, I hope that it is behind me but time will tell whether or not my confidence in it returns.

As a side note, I am presently looking at options for a new cheap lightweight "play bike" to use as a second bike especially when the AT is "sick". The chances of it being a Honda is slim to none even though I have always been a big Honda supporter for the last 50+ years. I have more Honda power products in my garage and shed then some small dealers have on display. Hopefully my AT problems and everyone else's turns out ok.
 

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So, I had mine done for the "2nd" time last week. The first time two years ago they had it in for 3 weeks figuring out the problem (one of the first ones done). I have ridden it with no problems for 2 years but got the recall notice. I called the local shop and asked if they still wanted it in, and after checking with mother Honda they said yes, as there was a different filter that they wanted fitted. Only took them one day including a bargain air filter change since they already had the cowling off.

As for not stocking parts, my money is the local shop would not stock the parts. Had that happen here with my Wing and a water pump. Scheduled a replacement and dropped it off two days early as that was convenient for me, only to find they had not ordered the pump and would not until their shop diagnosed it. I showed them the pictures I took of the blue dried coolant stains where it was leaking and they still would not order as if it didn't need a pump there was a part restocking fee. I marched over to the parts counter and ordered a pump, signing an acknowledgement that if it was not needed there would be a 25% restock fee. It needed the pump and I got it back for a 3 day trip I had planned that I would have missed if I had not purchased the pump. I am at a stage in my life where quality of life (time in this case) is worth a few bucks risked. Just saying.
 

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"I think they calculate based on the minimum capacity to start in warm climates where the temperature is a lot warmer than early spring and late fall in Canada. The battery box usually doesn't permit a battery with larger physical dimensions either. Add cold engine oil and cold battery and you are working against a stacked deck. "

I'm wondering, many of us have heated grips on our machines. The wires and or wiring, I'm gonna assume, are pretty thinly would around the interior of the grips, correct? Here's my thought(s) on this cold, sleeping battery thing. I know the battery box is not much bigger than the battery itself. But, would it be possible to create something very similar to the heated grips, that wraps around the battery, somewhat tightly, maybe and still allow for the package to be inserted into the battery box?

The Battery blanket, as I would call it, would be wired to the battery itself, independent of the rest of the bike and, would lead to a small switch maybe up on the bars someplace or, next to the main display or where ever it might fit. Under the conditions warranted, you could flip or push that switch for maybe what, a minute to maybe 3-4 minutes, enough to warm that battery so that it's cranking/starting capabilities would be improved enough for a more efficient start of the engine.

Now, maybe this is all a pipe dream and not warranted any further discussion. I don't live in a climate with really cold engine starting conditions. The Ignition ON procedure maybe is all that's needed for a quick battery warming, enough to provide enough draw on the battery to self warm it. Just some thoughts.
Scott
 

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There could be, maybe, some safety consideration regarding the management around electrically heating the battery, especially if the battery is of dubious health, and being in close proximity of a fuel source.
 

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The strange thing with my battery was it started the bike fine. I never had any issues with it until this time and it has never had a charger of any kind on it even though the dealer had installed an optimate connector to the battery. My battery died while the bike was running and shut everything down instantly. There was no warning, then all of a sudden nothing. The motor stopped and there was no dash light or warning lights - everything went dead instantly. It was idling at the time but I've since thought what would it have done if I was going down the highway?

I was by the dealer today and talked to the service manager. He did tell me that they couldn't check if anything else electrical was wrong until they had a new battery to put in it. They should have more answers next week and also expecting the Guglatech to arrive early next week. I don't believe the recall work will solve the tank issue so I am confident fixing the problem with the Guglatech is the solution as well as occasionally inspecting the tank. My confidence in Honda has diminished greatly but I don't see very many favorable options for me at this time. I have so few km's on it and added so many accessories and the extended warranty that I would take such a beating if I considered changing to something else. The other problem is I don't think there is anything made nowadays that is completely trouble free and near 100% dependable. Once my issue is solved, I hope that it is behind me but time will tell whether or not my confidence in it returns.

As a side note, I am presently looking at options for a new cheap lightweight "play bike" to use as a second bike especially when the AT is "sick". The chances of it being a Honda is slim to none even though I have always been a big Honda supporter for the last 50+ years. I have more Honda power products in my garage and shed then some small dealers have on display. Hopefully my AT problems and everyone else's turns out ok.
Over the years I have had two top of the line batteries die instantly! Just as you @Canoeyak have described. No blown fuses nor electrical malfunctions or shorts. Both instances I was riding Honda GoldWings of different models. I do not believe the motorcycle had anything to do with the battery failure. Both machines went in for another 100k miles without an alternator failure. Most motorcycle batteries in my Honda’s last on average 4 years with year round riding. I do not leave trickle chargers on my batteries continuously.
 

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On the subject of battery warming. I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Cold wet and snowy winters, and in South Eastern Ohio as well. I was taught by my father, and an uncle, to always turn the switch on, on any vehicle, for 15-20 seconds prior to cranking it over to warm the battery. My 2020 ATAS ES DCT is loaded with electronics. I switch the key on until the boot up sequence is nearly completed. It comes up then goes blank again. I then push down and release the start button. The computer takes over and cranks the ATAS until it starts. In 20 degrees F, the longest it has taken is approximately 12 seconds. I discovered the starter circuit was controlled by the onboard computer while purging the fuel system. It timed out the start sequence around 15 seconds. Scared the crap out of me, I thought the starter relay was stuck!
As far as a battery warmer is concerned, I use an incandescent light bulb. Plugged in of course. I have not had to use anything on my ATAS. Stock up on incandescent bulbs, as they are being outlawed. LED bulbs won’t do the trick. It only needs to be near the battery, not up against it. And insulate it from touching anything that you don’t want melted. As I was told it doesn’t take much, and a little is better than none at all. That’s my 2 cents.
 

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There could be, maybe, some safety consideration regarding the management around electrically heating the battery, especially if the battery is of dubious health, and being in close proximity of a fuel source.
Hey DT,
Yeah, I'm no electrical expert by any stretch. But, it was just a thought on warming the baby LI batt prior to starting, in excessively cold conditions. I wasn't incinuating the battery be boiled, just warmed a tad. Other than temporarily living, marching in, and training in, Chanute AFB IL during the '70s, I've never really had to deal with really cold start conditions. Living in southern Arizona, I don't think my A/T has ever been started below about 55 or 60 degrees.
Scott
 
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Hey DT,
Yeah, I'm no electrical expert by any stretch. But, it was just a thought on warming the baby LI batt prior to starting, in excessively cold conditions. I wasn't incinuating the battery be boiled, just warmed a tad. Other than temporarily living, marching in, and training in, Chanute AFB IL during the '70s, I've never really had to deal with really cold start conditions. Living in southern Arizona, I don't think my A/T has ever been started below about 55 or 60 degrees.
Scott
Hey Scott: Ya, I totally get it. I was only envisioning from the perspective of regulatory bodies associated with vehicle safety.

As owners, we can do as we wish at our own peril.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
That is a bizarre story that they are telling you. What exactly is the "test" they are performing? Does this motorcycle VIN fall under the recalled models? If YES perform the recall work if NO inform the owner?

The whole test thing sounds like fiction. Did you ask Honda if they authorized any "test" as a part of the recall procedure?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
I agree. Their story stinks.
I'll be going there on Monday in the afternoon to get my bike back. Now I have to take time off work. If my bike didn't need the work done I wouldn't have gotten the recall notice. I believe they were just being cheap.
I've been dealing with this dealer since my previous bike. It is time for a change. There is a small dealer much closer to me that I will use from now on. I do most of my own work anyway.

As far as asking Honda... It would be great if there was someone trustworthy from Honda Canada I could ask. Email gets me a yes person dismissive semi-response in 2-3 days. I don't expect the phone would get me any further.
 

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If my bike didn't need the work done I wouldn't have gotten the recall notice.
That right there is the bottom line. There is no other test. If it falls into the VIN range of affected bikes, and it obviously does if you got the notice, then they need to do the work.


As far as asking Honda... It would be great if there was someone trustworthy from Honda Canada I could ask. Email gets me a yes person dismissive semi-response in 2-3 days. I don't expect the phone would get me any further.
Perhaps not, it is worth a try though. I have have had hmm... probably half a dozen phone conversations with a couple of reps from American Honda.


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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
The weather was cooperative today so I took the morning and got my bike back. It was completely empty of fuel. Cheap people. At least I know they didn't put the old fuel in it which would have been contaminated so there is that.

Once I have time I'll email the address on the recall notice telling Honda my story. Who knows what will happen but I'm $100 in fuel (2 trips 1 hour away plus filling my bike) and $200 in lost wages into this recall work.

From now on I'm dealing with the closer yet much smaller dealer.
 

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I'm still waiting to make the cleaning of my ATAS 2018 DCT fuel tank. Meanwhile I saw this new video from Gluglatech. They made a cuted a tank to show that they're pump filter doesn't touch fuel lever sensor. What do you think? Is this the way to way to go? I don't know if I buy it or not.

 

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So, no opinions regarding this new Guglatech video? How is it possible that some have problems with the fuel level if it isn't near from the
filter?
 

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Hi Starmad, I had the dealer install a Guglatech filter on my 19 ATAS DCT when they did the recall. I've only gone through 1 tank of gas since then but the fuel gauge has worked just fine.

Cheers
Alex
 

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@Dankly1 I have already an appointment with my dealer. I spoke with the person in charge and he told me that it is not possible to install the Guglatech filter. Outside Honda he can and will install if I want, but not inside Honda dealer.
 
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