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Nice with the gold wheels, my black had black wheels only... Tempted to buy a set of black panels at the mo, yet to cost though... Who's centre stand you got.? I have a SW Motech on order, and need to improve the screen/helmet buffet, also ordered a tank front air dam, sadly shipping around the world is very slow with the COVID times...
 

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I’m new to mine, had it a week now and only covered around 600 miles.
But first impressions though mostly good one thing stands out and that’s the
very slow speed stuff, car parks, U turns etc. It reminds me of riding a bike
with broken clutch cable.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I’m new to mine, had it a week now and only covered around 600 miles.
But first impressions though mostly good one thing stands out and that’s the
very slow speed stuff, car parks, U turns etc. It reminds me of riding a bike
with broken clutch cable.
It is a bit jerky, personally it doesn’t bother me, but some will add a touch of throttle and a bit of brake, to smooth it out a bit.
 
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Nice with the gold wheels, my black had black wheels only... Tempted to buy a set of black panels at the mo, yet to cost though... Who's centre stand you got.? I have a SW Motech on order, and need to improve the screen/helmet buffet, also ordered a tank front air dam, sadly shipping around the world is very slow with the COVID times...
The center stand in the image is SW Motech.
 

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It is a bit jerky, personally it doesn’t bother me, but some will add a touch of throttle and a bit of brake, to smooth it out a bit.
I don't detect the level of jerkiness some have expressed, but it is not zero. I think too it is quite acceptable for a twin.
 

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I don't detect the level of jerkiness some have expressed, but it is not zero. I think too it is quite acceptable for a twin.
Jerking is a bit to harsh to describe it, pulsing (?)...
Definitely a unnatural feel, usually most people will be slipping the clutch and running higher RPM’s..
 

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Jerking is a bit to harsh to describe it, pulsing (?)...
Definitely a unnatural feel, usually most people will be slipping the clutch and running higher RPM’s..
Yeah, I have no drama doing AT U-turns; in fact I didn't even think about it until a few posts popped up in the Forum. On a standard clutch machine, I rarely disengage the clutch. But like you said, I do indeed slightly roll on the throttle. I do the same with the DCT. The motive is I have no interest napping into the turn. In both cases, I may or may not touch the rear brake.
 

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Have you found your G-Spot?

How you can test it out for yourself and find out what it's all about: some testing suggestions
 

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Have you found your G-Spot?

How you can test it out for yourself and find out what it's all about: some testing suggestions
No I haven't, but I know the bike has got one. Even the owners manual tells you that you are going to have a serious relationship with your bike. I'm still loving the modes and flirting with the balance of the bike. It's a crazy balanced bike. I have never doubted Japanese engineering when it comes to designing man / machine. They always put the buttons in the right spot and give you a machine that reacts. Great Article, a lot of figure eights this weekend.
 

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Japanese Engineering - " the experience of a phenomena that was based on a certain degree of predictability. "
That's Perfect!
 

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Have you found your G-Spot?

How you can test it out for yourself and find out what it's all about: some testing suggestions
Honda. Does have a LOT of information and explanations on how their stuff works and why, you just gotta dig around for it.
 

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I have a 2017 DCT purchased new Jan 2019 that now has about 3000 miles. Love the DCT. First thing I learned is to always do a pre-drive setup before departing after starting the engine. Hate that everything always returns to defalt sets instead of keeping your last input settings. Normally engage Sport 1 as my standard driving mode. D mode lugs too much for my liking. ALWAYS remember to cancel traction control when you hit gravel. The 2017 uses ignition interrupt to control wheel spin resulting in an engine stutter that sounds and feels like you have MAJOR engine issues. This will happen in sand, gravel etc. and is a major problem starting in technical uphill situations. Easy to forget if you don't make a climb and then try to resume mid-climb after wearing yourself out picking up the bike. Also, NEVER RUN THE BATTERY DOWN. I recently didn't get the ignition turned off with the key after shifting to neutral and shutting down with the switch, which leaves the headlight on. An hour later the battery was full dead. The ignition will not respond until you get a full charge. Tried to jump to a fully charged deep cycle 12V battery, which I let sit for 30 min, but finally had to call a friend to come load me up. Fired up no problem after an hour charging at home. If you loose the battery in the middle of nowhere you can't bump start and a jumper battery start is questionable.
 

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Agreed, I personally think that Honda added it purely for aesthetics. With dual clutches it is not helpful at all, because there is no “gap” between gears..
I don't own a DCT model but I would put this thought out to the forum members: when this clutch is engaged (yes, DCT), there is a fixed gear ratio between the crank shaft and the rear tire. Whenever a different gear is selected by the DCT for any reason, there will initially be an RPM mismatch between the crank and the rear tire which the controller can try to deal with in a number of ways. Like drop the clutch (like shifting without a clutch on a manual), smooth the transition by controlling crank speed up or down with throttle, etc.

As a seasoned flight control designer & engineer, it doesn't surprise me that the engine controller would "blip" the engine to rapidly effect speed match for the engagement on down shifts. Doing so preserves the mechanism and makes the machine ride more smoothly. I've never ridden one of these bikes, but knowing what I do about complex control systems, I doubt Honda would do this for cosmetic reasons. Remember the KISS rule for design of complex systems.

Just thinkin' out loud.
 
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I was convinced I would put up with whatever quirks or shortcomings the DCT might have before I bought it. I own a couple other bikes if I want to ride a manual. For the first few weeks I just rode in D and manually shifted when I didn’t like its selection. The goal was to fully familiarize myself with the bike before I started messing with it. Then (thanks to you guys) I found the S modes. Boy did I feel dumb. Seems you can make it do just about anything you want once you learn how. It can rip or econo-cruise, it’s our choice.
 

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I don't own a DCT model but I would put this thought out to the forum members: when this clutch is engaged (yes, DCT), there is a fixed gear ratio between the crank shaft and the rear tire. Whenever a different gear is selected by the DCT for any reason, there will initially be an RPM mismatch between the crank and the rear tire which the controller can try to deal with in a number of ways. Like drop the clutch (like shifting without a clutch on a manual), smooth the transition by controlling crank speed up or down with throttle, etc.

As a seasoned flight control designer & engineer, it doesn't surprise me that the engine controller would "blip" the engine to rapidly effect speed match for the engagement on down shifts. Doing so preserves the mechanism and makes the machine ride more smoothly. I've never ridden one of these bikes, but knowing what I do about complex control systems, I doubt Honda would do this for cosmetic reasons. Remember the KISS rule for design of complex systems.

Just thinkin' out loud.
You missed the fact that DCT has two concentric crankshafts each connected to a clutch- one for odd gears and the other for even numbered gears.
Also, the "blipping" was introduced in 2018/2019 models. It was not programmed into the earlier AT models nor the previous DCT iterations because it was not necessary.
Whether the ECM shifts up or down the gear, the next gear is already meshed in the same output shaft ie. synchronized and there is no need to "rev match".
IMO, this is the "KISS rule" exemplified, as far as automatic shifting transmissions is concerned.
 

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Offroad riding tip:
If you want to keep all settings while taking a moment to take in the vista (aka P-break)
1. come to a stop
2. without touching any other switches, put your side stand down.Do your thing.
3. When you're ready to giddyup, just start engine and enjoy all your settings as they were.

No need to worry about battery drain unless the cooling fans are active.
Even when they are on, you can safely take in the vista for a couple of minutes.

PS. use at your own risk. I never had a problem- in 4 years.
 

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You missed the fact that DCT has two concentric crankshafts each connected to a clutch- one for odd gears and the other for even numbered gears.
Also, the "blipping" was introduced in 2018/2019 models. It was not programmed into the earlier AT models nor the previous DCT iterations because it was not necessary.
Whether the ECM shifts up or down the gear, the next gear is already meshed in the same output shaft ie. synchronized and there is no need to "rev match".
IMO, this is the "KISS rule" exemplified, as far as automatic shifting transmissions is concerned.
Yup, that would definitely help with the matching. In my many years of engineering, I have come to respect good mechanical engineers most of all. There is not any problem a competent mechanical engineer cannot solve, and elegantly. I wish I could say the same for many others in our profession. Want to be truly impressed? Take a detailed look at the landing gear on a heavy commercial jet transport when you have some free time. They are works of engineering art.

The down side, of course, is all that added mechanical, electrical & control complexity. Missed indeed! Thanks for the heads up DCTFAN.

All that said, I must still believe Honda implemented this "feature" for other than cosmetic reasons. Doing so for appearance just adds additional levels of unwanted complexity--another thing to break or wander off in ways the designers will never have imagined. I could be wrong here, but in the aircraft controls business we avoid adding these "features" like we avoid the plague. Unless you're a French engineer working for Airbus, but now I'm wandering off-topic.
 

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Honda has been tinkering with DCT since 2009 (1st debut on a VFR) or longer.
The dual crank design has not changed from those days but I suspect a few minor changes have been made
in the engagement and disengagement of the clutches. Not just software enhancements (ECM) but the design on the hydraulic side as well.
Honda calls it "Clutch Capacity Control".
It would be safe to assume the "blipping" improves on this area- make it a smoother and quicker process when it engages a lower gear.
This change is really hard to recognize in day to day riding but when analyzed with graph and data, it just proves it works.
The minutiae of the processes will bore many on here that just want to ride, but I just love the fact that big H never stops innovating.
The diagram below illustrates "Clutch Capacity Control" effected by the G-mode switch, for example:

G mode graph.jpg
 

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Don't forget the materials (sometimes chemical) engineering. They typically work close with the mec'kys improving design durability.

e.g. choice of materials, surface treatments, etc.

But yeah, in general the mech, electrical and system engineers get the lion share of the spotlight. Maybe the system engineers get more than their share and the mechs doing the foundation groundwork, which many times "gets forgotten".
 
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