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Discussion Starter #1
For 2 weeks since the summer arrived in Switzerland I have been riding my 2014 Fazer 8 and today going back on the AT, I am shocked and frightened how much more I need
to brake and there is only a 15Kg difference between bikes. I also have been working on my cornering and trail braking riding the Yamaha, but now I'm worried jumping from
on to the other because of the lack of braking and feeling on the Honda.


I read related threads saw some installed braided brake lines, but would anyone have recomended brake pads that have more bite or would I need to change the master cylinder ?
All opinions are welcome, I've never really looked in depth into braking as I never felt the need before, but now I feel it's needed.
 
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Generally, braided steel brake lines and pads will make a world of difference. Good sources for the lines would be Galfer or Goodridge. For pads, I would check Galfer and EBC. Both make performance oriented HH pads which should give much better feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Generally, braided steel brake lines and pads will make a world of difference. Good sources for the lines would be Galfer or Goodridge. For pads, I would check Galfer and EBC. Both make performance oriented HH pads which should give much better feel.
I know about Goodridge, one of my motorcycle web provider that are good has this, don't know about the quality of the brand !?
https://www.carpimoto.it/en-CH/Bike_Honda_Africa-Twin-CRF1000L-ABS-2016/46154_152165-1-Fren-Tubo-Street-Legal-Brake-Line-Kit-Type-1-Honda-Africa-Twin-1000-16-17-with-ABS.htm


Not really adding anything to this thread other than the rear brakes on my 2018 feel almost useless...That's my biggest complaint about the bike.
I was fine until lately but yeah, the front is spongy and not progressive like on my Yamaha, then the rear is wooden and almost on off, though I don't really worry about it, because I use it mostly in the city and no risks of fall.


It's a bit crazy to realize that my Yamaha that was designed in 2010, with good old Yamaha brakes that you see on older 2004 R1, brakes a lot better...
 

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Discussion Starter #6

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I know your feeling!. When I changed from my 2004 Varadero to the AT, I was expecting the brakes to be 100 times better. Turns out they give the same feeling. Decent braking and enough for most situations, but a bit of a "soft" feeling, as if there was not enough bite.
And comparing to Yamaha, I tried the 2019 Tracer 900, and those brakes work! power brakes ofc, but so strong and precise, you can go from 100kmph to 10 and then bring up the back tire and do a stoppie, all with nice smooth action. At some point I'll try the braided lines and different pads to see what it does.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know your feeling!. When I changed from my 2004 Varadero to the AT, I was expecting the brakes to be 100 times better. Turns out they give the same feeling. Decent braking and enough for most situations, but a bit of a "soft" feeling, as if there was not enough bite.
And comparing to Yamaha, I tried the 2019 Tracer 900, and those brakes work! power brakes ofc, but so strong and precise, you can go from 100kmph to 10 and then bring up the back tire and do a stoppie, all with nice smooth action. At some point I'll try the braided lines and different pads to see what it does.
You know Yamaha has been using the same calipers for more than 20 years, on many models, the funniest is if you tried the Tracer 900 they are radial mount,
on my Fazer 8 they aren't but it still brakes better than the AT's Radial calipers…

But still it seems to me that the braking was better when I bought it, maybe the lines are dead, I did travel a lot in snow, rain and deserts, I will upgrade to
braided lines !
 
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Not really adding anything to this thread other than the rear brakes on my 2018 feel almost useless...That's my biggest complaint about the bike.
Have you tried riding downhill on a gravel forest service road standing and used the rear brake?
You'll be very glad it is sensitive enough you can find the edge of traction easily without locking it up - and yes - ride off road with ABS off - you can stop faster.

Brakes on the AT are well balanced, flawless on pavement and awesome on gravel.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Brakes on the AT are well balanced, flawless on pavement and awesome on gravel.
The 2 last days I almost crashed 2 times in the rear of cars and needed to add a lot of rear brake with front not to crash, so no on pavement the front isn't flawless, I can't brake as short as my Yamaha and I will address this issue as I don't ride enough off-road to keep the sloppy front that's more gravel friendly.


And BTW I ckecked pads and fluid even after 30'000 Km both are fine, so definitely think the front brake lines are crapping out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
They're not Australian.

see below screen shot.

Okay, well anyway I went with the Italian brand I linked, as shipping and customs issues I know go well from this shop and usually everything motorcycle related that's Italian is quality.
 

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Hey guys-

See the link.
https://youtu.be/6LJiPDAr9f8

It's a cool and informative video. The comment thread at the bottom also has some good points...even motorcycle related. Figured that Honda knows what they are doing. Granted they likely went rubber lines for the cost benefit but one my assume that factors into how the ABS works. I too would prefer a firmer feel on the brakes but I'm concerned that the steel braided line may somehow effect how the ABS kicks in.
 

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I like my brakes, you have to mean them to come on. The contact patch at the front when it's cold, wet and slippy is minimal and I think would have the ABS working overtime with cold, wet hands.
Try a little challenge, run into a corner with a decent amount of lean angle and speed and apply the front till the ABS kicks in, as if a child or car has suddenly appeared in front of you, the ABS kicks in and the forks are fully loaded, the front reacts to deformations in the road surface and skips and pushes as there's no suspension left to cope and the tiny contact patch is working really hard to grip, that's possibly the reason Honda didn't equip the AT with jaw dropping stoppers.
I ride an XR400 and TY250 off road and generally cover the front brake with a finger and if I lived somewhere that had suitable terrain I'm sure I'd use the AT in a similar way and probably be glad of that initial lack of bite every time you hit an unseen hole or rock and grip the bars much harder to remain attached.
I'd guess that Honda has built Joseph's coat of many colours and you just need to tweak it to suit the riding you are mostly going use it for.
 

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I'd guess that Honda has built Joseph's coat of many colours and you just need to tweak it to suit the riding you are mostly going use it for.
Pretty sure you've hit the nail on the head.. I've now got 12k miles on my DCT, ridden it in the Pyrenees, Scottish Highlands etc and still happy with the standard brakes. Could they be sharper? Yes, but I ride according to both the road/traffic conditions and also how I know the brakes react. I will no doubt change the pads when needed and at the same time put braided lines on...at which point I'll have to re-learn the braking capabilities of the bike.
 

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I must not be very good at this motorcycle lark, having been riding for 40 years I find myself in awe of people who can feel the difference in braided hoses over brand new rubber on an abs system!!
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hey guys-

See the link.
https://youtu.be/6LJiPDAr9f8

It's a cool and informative video. The comment thread at the bottom also has some good points...even motorcycle related. Figured that Honda knows what they are doing. Granted they likely went rubber lines for the cost benefit but one my assume that factors into how the ABS works. I too would prefer a firmer feel on the brakes but I'm concerned that the steel braided line may somehow effect how the ABS kicks in.

ABS has nothing to do with the brake lever or lines, it's not programmed to suit these, it looks at the wheels if they slip it kicks in, so maybe you might have more initial braking power with SS lines and ABS will kick in more often if the tires want to slip, but it doesn't make it worse or unsafe.


Anyway my front ABS has only kicked in once, while the back is pretty often on that's not very good, but really if I didn't have my Yamaha I would be okay with the brakes, because I wouldn't need to readjust my braking brain/hand power, when going from one to the other, that's my big concern because you get used to the nice firm braking of the Yamaha and then get surprised on the Honda your buttcheeks clunging on the saddle... no thank you I'll try to make both bikes behave in a similar fashion !


Must I remind people that KTM 1190 and 1290 have Brembo brakes on 19" wheels, which no one ever complained about and they still are amazing dirt machines, so I don't think more braking power on the Honda will be such an issue.
Plus I'm a trail braking nutt now and that's great on the Yamaha, while on the Honda I mostly can't feel much if I'm braking or not.
 

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I know your feeling!. When I changed from my 2004 Varadero to the AT, I was expecting the brakes to be 100 times better. Turns out they give the same feeling. Decent braking and enough for most situations, but a bit of a "soft" feeling, as if there was not enough bite.
And comparing to Yamaha, I tried the 2019 Tracer 900, and those brakes work! power brakes ofc, but so strong and precise, you can go from 100kmph to 10 and then bring up the back tire and do a stoppie, all with nice smooth action. At some point I'll try the braided lines and different pads to see what it does.
Years back, I added stainless steel braided brake lines to my Vara also (XL1000V SD-02). Can't remember what brand or who the supplier was now. Certainly improved the feel and response of front and rear brakes. I'll probably go down that route with my 2017 AT DCT at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I received the SS lines, perfect sizes they fit as the OEM !


Though how do you torque correctly where the rectangular attachment parts connect to the ABS metal tubes ?
The banjo bolts I can use a toque wrench but on these connections you can only use regular nut wrench !


Also one paper says that the ABS might need a reset after install, anyone experienced this !?
 

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Sorry can't help with your question about fitting but had an interesting conversation with a Honda mechanic about the front brakes. He says that with the 21 inch front tire, having brakes that are too powerful would quickly overwhelm the contact patch and you'd be slipping and sliding all over when it's wet and cold. His suggestion was change one or the other, but not both the pads and the lines. He suggested better pads would give more of a bite and feel and that would be enough for most people... Something to think about but happy to be proven wrong by those who have changed both :)
 
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