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Navigation & GPS

28K views 58 replies 25 participants last post by  Rainbowsweetie 
#1 ·
Gang,
Many of you have helped me with great answers on some of my questions on my newly acquired brand new 2018 AT/AS DCT and, I surely appreciate it. Since these forum formats have changed recently, it's way more difficult for me to find and use a search process. So, with that being said, and the fact that it's not 2020 which, comes with GPS, I'm thinking I'd like to pursuit some form of GPS unit. Now, it could be my phone, or, maybe a Garmin or, some form of a small tablet etc. that maybe a Ram mount will work with. I don't want something too big but, on the other hand, these 67 year old eyes also need to see and read the screen from a couple of feet away.
So, I'm vaguely familiar with Gaia but, pretty much nothing else. I'm certainly not a computer geek that can handle linking this program to that program and all that. I need SIMPLE! I would like it to display current position on the city streets I'm on as well as, potentially displaying current position on maybe given trails etc. So, what's some of you experienced folks using?
Scott
 
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#49 ·
I’ve used my phone too, however when the temps get high my phone shuts down. I was on my way back to the USA from Mexico and temps rose quite high. I was during my iPhone X and it shut down. I thought, “ well I’d better look into GPS’s or simply use a map.
 
#3 ·
I use a TOMTOM rider 410 ... the newer model i think is the 500 or 550 which apparently is even quicker. Nice clear screen and easy to set up and use. I ususally plan routes off line and download them. Also I am not sure about the mounting bracket on the windscreen of your bike (i have the 2017 DCT) .. but i followed advice from here an got the stifer brace and then mounted an sw motec tomtom holder on that. Orginally i had mouned on handle bars but looked awkward and indeed was a pain when i use my tank bank.

I would also direct you in the direction of iconic parts .. Jamie Clare has some amazing mounts that he machines I have not tried his tom tom mount but i am very confident it will be top quality .. i can vouch for his rad guard for both my AT and my Ducati Enduro first class service.
 
#4 ·
#5 · (Edited)
Similar to ATD, I use a Garmin Zumo 595LM and a Touratech mount. The 595LM has also been phased out and replaced by the unit that ATD has linked to.

The 595LM is still available for sale, but unless you have already invested in the Touratech mount for the 590/595, I don't know that there would be any advantage to buying one over the current model.



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#6 · (Edited)
Hey FIRE UP - I've been pondering hard on this one too.
  • I thought I wanted a GPS, but couldn't justify the extra costs and fuss associated with yet another gadget with limited-scope use. That is, the phone does everything and more.
  • That said, I still felt I wanted a dedicated GPS. o_O While fighting my Jones'ing, I pretty well decided on a Garmin Zumo 396 LMT-S. This was good enough for me. But it was another thing to fuss with. All my past GPSs ended up being "dash trash" and sold on "Craig's List".
  • Most of my riding is on-road, so I don't require the additional ruggedness.
  • My current phone, I have been using in an el-cheapo mount for four years now without issue, except the phone is officially not water-resistant. It probably is, but is not certified as such. I should mention that my el-cheapo won't hold larger phones.
  • In addition, I am due for a new phone in less than one year and there is a 100% chance it will be IP6x compliant because most of the top tier phones are these days. So the issue of rain damage goes away.
  • I also use a Cardo helmet Bluetooth device to stay connected with my phone. It just works - no issues. I get Google Maps voice prompts without issue. I also have an offline maps as a backup option.
  • So, that brings me to the dreaded RAM X-Grip. I ultimately committed to this approach. They are solid, reliable and minimal fuss and cost. They can be used for phones and GPS's, should Jones return. :) The X-Grip also can be easily relocated around the bike and to other bikes without to much additional cost and hardship (you just need to add another RAM ball mount - which are commonly available).
I am a bit of a minimalist, that is, I would like to keep the junk factor on the AT to a minimum. I suspect this will be very hard to do once I up my off-road time.
 
#7 ·
Gang,
Many of you have helped me with great answers on some of my questions on my newly acquired brand new 2018 AT/AS DCT and, I surely appreciate it. Since these forum formats have changed recently, it's way more difficult for me to find and use a search process. So, with that being said, and the fact that it's not 2020 which, comes with GPS, I'm thinking I'd like to pursuit some form of GPS unit. Now, it could be my phone, or, maybe a Garmin or, some form of a small tablet etc. that maybe a Ram mount will work with. I don't want something too big but, on the other hand, these 67 year old eyes also need to see and read the screen from a couple of feet away.
My riding is mostly on road be it paved, gravel or dirt. You are not likely to find me riding across the fields and through the woods. I use a Garmin Nuvi 4.3" with lifetime maps. I picked it up and Canadian Tire or Best Buy. It is your run of the mill automotive GPS. I doubt management would easily agree on a motorcycle specific unit considering the steep for me cost. Plus if someone does steal it I am not out $600 +. For mounting on the bike I use a GPS holder from Givi. It has internal padding to help absorb vibration, is water resistant with an additional water proof cover if you are stuck in the rain and cost somewhere between $60-$80. The GPS holder is available in different sizes and can hold a phone if you get the right one. The ATAS has a 12 volt power point on the dash which I plugged a 12V USB adaptor into. The power point isn't good for much else considering its 2A current limitations. The mount would not go around the ATAS handlebar but fits well on the left mirror stalk. This was where I kept it on my 650 V-Strom and it works well for me on the Honda. I also used a USB charging cable to power the GPS since the data cable will not support charging while the navigation mode is engaged. Alternatively, you could just use the DC charger that came with the GPS. Regrding mounting the GPS holder on the mirror stalk I ended up using Cork gasket material as a shim short term until I can acquire suitable rubber for that task when this COVID situation improves. The GPS holder was shipped with rubber shim material originally but I disposed of it not realizing I would need it in the future. I have attached some pictures of mine on the bike. They are a bit dark but every time I went to roll the bike out for better light water started falling from the sky. This may not be what you are looking for but it is an option. If you have questions or want better pictures let me know.
 

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#9 ·
I use a Garmin Nuvi 4.3" with lifetime maps. I picked it up and Canadian Tire or Best Buy. It is your run of the mill automotive GPS. I doubt management would easily agree on a motorcycle specific unit considering the steep for me cost.
Those will work. I have the Zumo 595 on my ATAS, but I still have an ancient Garmin Nuvi 260W I used on my KTM 690. I picked up a hard plastic clamshell-type case that mounts over it for some additional ruggedness a little more water-resistant in addition to taping over the speaker and memory card slot. It isn't glove-friendly, but it still works at 12+ years old.

My wife and I went the Zumo route because we make extensive use of Base Camp. We do a lot of multi-day and often multi-week trips with our riding club. Being able to plan out the routes including gas stops, food stops, poi's, hotels, etc. can really help with a group ride allowing people to download it to their own GPS's and ride the route at their own paces, meeting up at the restaurants and hotels, etc. It allows folks to travel without having to stay in a pack and ride their own ride.

It is the one area where I have found the phone solutions lacking. No easy way to plan and share routes like that among the various phone/navigation apps. At least not one that I have found to be suitable.
 
#10 ·
Wow!,
Needless to say, there's apparently quite a few options, makes, models, plans etc. out there. Very confusing. In relation to the LM claims, how many of you have experienced an issue where you go to update your "LM" (lifetime map updates) GPS unit only to find that, even though your unit might be only a few (maybe 3-4) years old, the maker, i.e. Garmin, tells you, "Your unit is no longer produced and therefore, we do not support it, and LIFETIME MAPS will not apply?

I've heard and read of this many, many times in the last year or so, on various forums, RV, Goldwing, TW200 etc. My point in asking this question is, if we pay as much as some of you have, say, around $300-$600 for a well liked, well rounded unit, only to find out 2 to maybe 4 years later, our $300-$600 unit is NOT SUPPORTED anymore 'cause the company's moved on to produce different units, and therefore, our LIFETIME MAPS is no longer. Anyone on this site experiencing this issue?

As for all the options and help, it's very, very much appreciated. I now have plenty to ponder over. And to the person that stated he believed the 2020 AT does NOT come with GPS, well, go take a look on line at the 2020 models. Yep, they come with GPS on a much larger screen than what has been in/on the '19's and below.
Scott
 
#12 ·
And to the person that stated he believed the 2020 AT does NOT come with GPS, well, go take a look on line at the 2020 models. Yep, they come with GPS on a much larger screen than what has been in/on the '19's and below.
Scott
That person is correct. The 2020 models do not come with any GPS. Anything that you see on the 6.5" screen is mirrored off the iPhone using Carplay. And if you are an Android user, you are basically SOL, in which case you definitely have to invest in a GPS unit.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have not personally experienced any issues with LM updates, even on very old units. Perhaps the issues stem from people not registering their units through Garmin? I can't say. I have that older Nuvi 260W I mentioned that is 12 + years old and still updates as does my wife older Zumo 350, which has to be at least 8 years old? (double-checked Garmin 350LM was released 2012).

If someone is having an issue with LM, I would think a call to Garmin should result in them providing an unlock for it.

Edit: Here are the"Lifetime" Maps terms and reading through it, perhaps the issue is that some units don't have the memory capacity, card support or necessary tech for the updates and can therefore no longer receive them?

Lifetime Maps Terms & Conditions
If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately) or if your Garmin product comes bundled with a nüMaps Lifetime or other lifetime map subscription, you will receive map data updates when and as such updates are made available on Garmin.com during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier, whichever is shorter. A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs. A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. Unless otherwise stated, the updates you receive under the subscription will be updates to the same geographic area included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. In some instances, your Garmin product might not have sufficient memory remaining for you to load an update to the map data, in which case you will need to either (a) select reduced map data coverage for your updates, or (b) purchase separately a microSD™/SD™ card (if and as applicable to your Garmin product) and load all or a portion of the map data coverage for your updates to the card and insert the card into the microSD/SD card slot contained in your Garmin product. If neither of the measures in (a) or (b) can be used to address your product’s lack of sufficient remaining memory, then Garmin may conclude that the “useful life” of your product has expired. Garmin may terminate your nüMaps Lifetime or other lifetime map subscription at any time if you violate any of the terms of this agreement or your subscription. Your nüMaps Lifetime subscription or other lifetime map subscription may not be transferred to another person or another Garmin product.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Not [completely] true. Android Auto is supported in Honda cages, to this day.

I suspect there must have been some sort of fallout between the Power Sports division of Honda and Android?

In any case, Apple Carplay is not compelling enough for me to consider the extra cost, of what otherwise is a highly depreciating feature of the Honda motorcycle. Just give me the motorcycle bits. :)
 
#18 · (Edited)
What a forward-thinking motorcycle company ought to be doing, if they are not already considering on their whiteboards is:

A generic and optional interface and mount placement on the instrument cluster where a guest OS device (like iPhone OS and Android device) can park and monitor bike parameters and securely configure options on the motorcycle by way of Bluetooth communication. Simple and done. Honda provides the app, ... it really "should be" that simple.

Little bits like USB power and wireless charging must be included.

Heck, Honda can even charge a one-time registration fee to obtain a security key to permit the communications. This helps protect their IP and allows owners to decide if they really want the feature now or down the road. New owners should be given a 90 day (or whatever) temporary key as a teaser. And of course, the registration fee should be fair to help promote loyal Honda fan base.

= = =

Don't some electric cages do something like this already?
 
#21 ·
What worries me a bit is the "toy technology" put into some bikes (and cars!) obsolete well before the machine is done. If you keep the machine forever and hack-up the software, then it is probably not an issue for the owner.

= = =

I remember the first generation of audio stereo amplifiers that supported HDMI. There was a price premium for the HDMI. The amp itself was stellar, and always will be ... but not the HDMI portion - whose early version quickly became old and quirky. I am pretty sure bike buyers do not want to fall into that kind of wasteful trap.
 
#25 ·
My solution (for now, at least):

Ram Quick Grip (spring loaded hooked grippers) on bars towards left side, decided it was more convenient than the Ram X and a rubber band, more secure than a Ram X without the rubber band.

Position might work better with my vision than having it farther forward. Will experiment with a windshield brace mount, someday.

Samsung Note 8 phone (Android), then a combination of Google Maps and several apps that I am exploring for off cell service navigation with the satellites.

Sena SRL II kit in helmet mount, Shoei Neotec II for Bluetooth.

RidewithGPS is looking like it might be the winning app, but testing Gaia GPS and Avenza Maps. All cost something per year or per map, but not exhorbitant if you pick one and load it up. Google Maps is useful in cell service areas, for me.

Phone lives in an Otterbox case, anyway, so no issues with water. Road through a couple of hours of sideways rain today, no issues other than being cold and wet (rider.)

54277



moved outlet, opened port for USB charge lead
54278
 
#29 ·
My solution (for now, at least):

Ram Quick Grip (spring loaded hooked grippers) on bars towards left side, decided it was more convenient than the Ram X and a rubber band, more secure than a Ram X without the rubber band.

Position might work better with my vision than having it farther forward. Will experiment with a windshield brace mount, someday.

Samsung Note 8 phone (Android), then a combination of Google Maps and several apps that I am exploring for off cell service navigation with the satellites.

Sena SRL II kit in helmet mount, Shoei Neotec II for Bluetooth.

RidewithGPS is looking like it might be the winning app, but testing Gaia GPS and Avenza Maps. All cost something per year or per map, but not exhorbitant if you pick one and load it up. Google Maps is useful in cell service areas, for me.

Phone lives in an Otterbox case, anyway, so no issues with water. Road through a couple of hours of sideways rain today, no issues other than being cold and wet (rider.)

...

moved outlet, opened port for USB charge lead
...
Heh, I understand why you re-orientated the power outlet. In the old position, how did you access the ignition switch?

54285
 
#26 ·
Hmmmm - that's interesting Beowulf, I use an X-mount for my Iphone 8 plus and for the first time in about 10000 miles I noticed the other day that the phone had half popped out of the cradle - and I don't use the awkward elastic thing :eek:. So I did a search for the quickgrip and as far as I can see RAM only do that for standard size phones and mine is bigger (makes a better nav tool for being so).
Also the X-mount rubber grippers are so long that I have been able to glue a wireless charging pad to the centre and the ends of the X-grips still overlap the phone by at least 6mm. This is really handy for preventing any water ingress into the phone via a charge cable, but also makes it quicker to take on and off the bike to pay for fuel or to grab a pic. I'm not sure that the retaining 'teeth' on the quickgrip are longer enough to allow me to glue a wireless pad to the centre (it's about 4mm thick).
Your comments would be welcome
Mike
 
#27 ·
Mike, here is the XL version that I am using:

RAM Quick Grip XL

I tried to fit a 4mm thick wireless charging pad in behind the phone, but with the thick case I use, it pushed the phone too close to the tips of the teeth to hold it securely... :cry:

I am contemplating trying to take the plastic off the wireless charging pad to make it thinner, but have not worked up the enthusiasm, yet.
 
#30 ·
Mike, here is the XL version that I am using:

RAM Quick Grip XL

I tried to fit a 4mm thick wireless charging pad in behind the phone, but with the thick case I use, it pushed the phone too close to the tips of the teeth to hold it securely... :cry:

I am contemplating trying to take the plastic off the wireless charging pad to make it thinner, but have not worked up the enthusiasm, yet.
Hmmmm ... I use my iphone 8 plus in landscape orientation and I don't think the QuickGrip is going to work as well as the X-grip. When the Quick grip is used as per the pictures (portrait mode) I can see that it's going to be very secure - The end lugs are hooked but the side lugs are straight, as they need to be to get the phone out one handed. But when turned through 90 degrees it would be a bit worrying to have no upward curl on the bottom retaining pins. Shame because one-handed operation would be great.
The wireless charging pad I use by the way is this
Wireless Charger [USB C, Ultra Slim] 7.5W Qi Charger Compatible iPhone 11/11 Pro/11 Pro Max/XS/XR/XS Max/X/8 Plus/8, 10W Fast Charging Galaxy S10 S9 S8, Note 10, Note 9, Note 8 - No AC Adapter: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
Mike
 
#32 · (Edited)
Hey folks, here's an arrangement that I'm riding around with today as I work through placement, functionality, scan, etc.

Motor vehicle Vehicle Windshield Auto part Automotive exterior


In the center is a Camel ADV Windscreen Brace that I recently installed to beef up the forward fairing structure.


Mounted to the right of the top bar is a Ram Ball mount for a Garmin Zumo 396 LMT-S. I plan trips via Basecamp & Google Earth Pro and send them over to the Zumo. Mounted on the left bar of the brace is a Ram Mount X-Grip I'm using to park my iPhone whenever I want it up for anything. I can charge the phone through the 12V socket up front or through a dual USB port by my right leg near the seat. Both of these are attached to the brace.

Both the iPhone and the Garmin are linked via Bluetooth to a Sena comm system in my helmet. After 2 or 3 variations I am getting used to the arrangement pictured. Both the 12V and the Garmin are powered by the front aux power connector using an Eastern Beaver front power splitter.


Electronics Technology Room Electronic device Machine
 
#36 ·
So far i am happy with it. I have not used it for routing much yet since i just got it a couple weeks ago. I have played with it and have a bunch of track loaded from my old unit. I do love the screen and it works real well with gloves on.

The only real gripe i have so far is with my headset more than the unit. I have a SENA SRL in my Neotch 2 and it struggles with maintaining connection to the Zumo and it does all sorts of weird stuff like makes music play at double speed at random. I also got a XT for my Wife's bike and her SRL does the same stuff mine does. The 20s I have mounted on my Arai XD4 works perfect.
 
#37 ·
I also have a 2018 ATAS and running a Garmin GPSMAP 78 (waterproof and relatively inexpensive) and also run GAIA GPS on my phone. Big fan of both. Using a Ram mount for the gps and a Perfect Squeeze for the phone. Kept them off the crossbar...easy access on the handlebars. Perfect setup for me.
54384
 
#38 ·
I installed a Garmin at one point but it was hard to read the screen in sunlight and honestly it was pretty bad at the whole directions thing on the trip I tried it on. I ended up going back to the old trusty RAM mount and the Scenic app on my phone. If you haven't seen it before then check it out. Very good for motorcycling. One of the best nav apps I've used.

 
#41 ·
I used scenic for two years and I found it to have some issues which is why I got the Garmin. The two biggest issues, if you pre plan a ride with something like furkot and then deviate off that route for something like fuel it freaks out and never will get back on the route.The other issue is sometimes it literally gives the wrong directions like it will say left when the map clearly shows right. The first issue Is the deal breaker for me.


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