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Discussion Starter #21
Apologies for going off thread slightly, I would just like to tap into all this knowledge and experience and ask a simple question.

I live in UK and are currently doing the IAM Advanced Motorcycle Rider course. Despite training and a lot of practice with slow speed riding, I find it difficult to ride in a dead straight line on around 3-4 mph on tarmac without any wobble. I know the techniques and find this much easier on a sports bike, I'm also OK if I increase the speed to say 6 mph. I am also fine when changing direction. Putting aside my appalling skills for a minute, is this all down to me or is this recognised as being more challenging on a tall adventure bike such as the AT?

Thanks all.
You are relying on the wheels to balance you and not your body. Start with EVERY TIME you take off, from a light or stop sign, keep your front wheel absolutely straight. No twist/wobble to go and get to speed. This will help you with balance. And no worries there are a lot of riders that have a hard time doing what is just suggested. Also once you can take off in a straight line with no front wheel “dance” (twist). Keep doing it, it’s a simple “trick” but most will find it hard to do on a slow/normal take off, but it is real easy to do on a whole shot. Just remember when you take off, no right and left twist on the bars that most do when the bike first starts to move, dead straight on the bars....
 
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Hydraulically with engine oil? Maybe that explains the large oil sump?
Yup - the actuator is hydraulic and uses engine oil which is incompressible for all intent.
 

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Apologies for going off thread slightly, I would just like to tap into all this knowledge and experience and ask a simple question.

I live in UK and are currently doing the IAM Advanced Motorcycle Rider course. Despite training and a lot of practice with slow speed riding, I find it difficult to ride in a dead straight line on around 3-4 mph on tarmac without any wobble. I know the techniques and find this much easier on a sports bike, I'm also OK if I increase the speed to say 6 mph. I am also fine when changing direction. Putting aside my appalling skills for a minute, is this all down to me or is this recognised as being more challenging on a tall adventure bike such as the AT?

Thanks all.
Hey Ray - Slow speed "stability and control" is a very strong function of the rake angle of the forks and the resulting trail. Sport bikes have a shallower angle off vertical with less trail for quick response to rider input. Turn the bar on a sport bike and it starts to lean right now. The Kawi Ninja, for example, has a rake angle of 24 deg.

The AT, as with most enduro-type bikes, has a larger rake angle at 27.5 deg. This pushes the front tire out further from the bike, increases the trail, and changes the geometry of forces from the contact patch into the bike. The result is to slow the response down a bit and require larger inputs to get the machine to behave.

High speed stability comes mainly from your wheels with a wee bit from the engine - these are basically large gyroscopes. At low speed, the stability has to come from your steering and throttle input. The AT requires larger low-speed inputs than a sport to keep the CG where you want it. These large inputs require throttle manipulation to manage lean angle and turn speed to accommodate. Riding a straight line is harder on an AT compared to your average sport bike. She's a big girl and requires some man-handling at times. Stick with it though. If you can master a sport you will also tame the AT.

Here's a good article on front-end MC geometry.

 

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For example, I can keep the AT upright at 0 mph for about three seconds (sitting), and maybe infinitely at 1 mph.
Jimmy Lewis spends a lot of time on balance drills for that reason. I definitely struggle with the no hands drill.



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Hey Ray - Slow speed "stability and control" is a very strong function of the rake angle of the forks and the resulting trail. Sport bikes have a shallower angle off vertical with less trail for quick response to rider input. Turn the bar on a sport bike and it starts to lean right now. The Kawi Ninja, for example, has a rake angle of 24 deg.

The AT, as with most enduro-type bikes, has a larger rake angle at 27.5 deg. This pushes the front tire out further from the bike, increases the trail, and changes the geometry of forces from the contact patch into the bike. The result is to slow the response down a bit and require larger inputs to get the machine to behave.

High speed stability comes mainly from your wheels with a wee bit from the engine - these are basically large gyroscopes. At low speed, the stability has to come from your steering and throttle input. The AT requires larger low-speed inputs than a sport to keep the CG where you want it. These large inputs require throttle manipulation to manage lean angle and turn speed to accommodate. Riding a straight line is harder on an AT compared to your average sport bike. She's a big girl and requires some man-handling at times. Stick with it though. If you can master a sport you will also tame the AT.

Here's a good article on front-end MC geometry.

Thank you for the excellent insight and making me feel less crap at riding in a straight line at 3 mph. Other guys on the course give me a hard time but they're riding sport bikes. I'm OK at 5/6 mph, its just below 4 mph where I struggle to be as good as I want to be. I could just give the AT to one of the others to show me, but I love it too much!

Great wisdom and insight from the forum as ever, best regards.
 

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I ride 2016 manual 67k abosulty a fantastic machine. Yes it’s not a 450 Mx dirt bike , but lov
e riding twists & off road . I’ve completed the California BDR , ARIZONA BDR & UTAH BDR , RIDING this machine is absolutely fun fun, my next ride is the Colorado BDR in September 2020. This motorcyle can do anything you want, just have to have the right mind set. 👍🤡🤡🤡💯💯🤓
 

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Is there a way to have the bike remember TCS and ABS settings between key-off cycles? I do a lot of dropping the bike when I go in the sand pits, and it is annoying to be held up holding the buttons down every time I have to cycle the key to reset the tip-over sensor. 2019 ATAS no DCT.

Riding on deep sand is all but impossible with any level of the TCS kicking in. You have to keep the power on otherwise the front end sinks and you go down. I don't even turn the power setting to low anymore, just rip the throttle and let 'er eat! Definitely strange learning how to handle such a heavy bike off-road. Learn how to steer by spinning the rear tire until you are pointed where you want to go, the handlebars are secondary haha. Transitioning into a very loose area from one with traction is unnerving, the bars feel like they are doing a full lock-to-lock tank-slapper, you just have to stay on the gas and you'll float above the lumps and be alright. It's terrifying, initially, but the weight of the bike makes it very unforgiving if you deviate from this policy of throttle throttle throttle.

Full dirt tires are also a must, I wouldn't even want to do mild single track with something like a TKC80 with this bike. I fit a 140/80 Pirelli Scorpion on the rear rim, and a 90/90 D606 up front, and it works well.

Here's the last time the bike was ever clean, now there is sand and pinecones in every crevice, and 'character' scuffs all over. The crash bars do their job!
Snapchat-261593221[1].jpg

I recommend taking the windshield off if doing serious off-road, it's just one less thing to break or whack your head into.
 

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Is there a way to have the bike remember TCS and ABS settings between key-off cycles? I do a lot of dropping the bike when I go in the sand pits, and it is annoying to be held up holding the buttons down every time I have to cycle the key to reset the tip-over sensor. 2019 ATAS no DCT.

Riding on deep sand is all but impossible with any level of the TCS kicking in. You have to keep the power on otherwise the front end sinks and you go down. I don't even turn the power setting to low anymore, just rip the throttle and let 'er eat! Definitely strange learning how to handle such a heavy bike off-road. Learn how to steer by spinning the rear tire until you are pointed where you want to go, the handlebars are secondary haha. Transitioning into a very loose area from one with traction is unnerving, the bars feel like they are doing a full lock-to-lock tank-slapper, you just have to stay on the gas and you'll float above the lumps and be alright. It's terrifying, initially, but the weight of the bike makes it very unforgiving if you deviate from this policy of throttle throttle throttle.

Full dirt tires are also a must, I wouldn't even want to do mild single track with something like a TKC80 with this bike. I fit a 140/80 Pirelli Scorpion on the rear rim, and a 90/90 D606 up front, and it works well.

Here's the last time the bike was ever clean, now there is sand and pinecones in every crevice, and 'character' scuffs all over. The crash bars do their job!
View attachment 60407

I recommend taking the windshield off if doing serious off-road, it's just one less thing to break or whack your head into.
Just use your sidestand to kill the engine. If the tip-over sensor cuts ignition, only a ignition key restart works- reason to disable it? :)
 
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Ooh, that's a good idea, sometimes a tumble would leave you closer to the kickstand than the handlebar killswitch.

The settings will remain if you use the handlebar switch to stop the engine, as long as you don't touch the key. That is handy for quick stops on the trail.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Is there a way to have the bike remember TCS and ABS settings between key-off cycles? I do a lot of dropping the bike when I go in the sand pits, and it is annoying to be held up holding the buttons down every time I have to cycle the key to reset the tip-over sensor. 2019 ATAS no DCT.

Riding on deep sand is all but impossible with any level of the TCS kicking in. You have to keep the power on otherwise the front end sinks and you go down. I don't even turn the power setting to low anymore, just rip the throttle and let 'er eat! Definitely strange learning how to handle such a heavy bike off-road. Learn how to steer by spinning the rear tire until you are pointed where you want to go, the handlebars are secondary haha. Transitioning into a very loose area from one with traction is unnerving, the bars feel like they are doing a full lock-to-lock tank-slapper, you just have to stay on the gas and you'll float above the lumps and be alright. It's terrifying, initially, but the weight of the bike makes it very unforgiving if you deviate from this policy of throttle throttle throttle.

Full dirt tires are also a must, I wouldn't even want to do mild single track with something like a TKC80 with this bike. I fit a 140/80 Pirelli Scorpion on the rear rim, and a 90/90 D606 up front, and it works well.

Here's the last time the bike was ever clean, now there is sand and pinecones in every crevice, and 'character' scuffs all over. The crash bars do their job!
View attachment 60407

I recommend taking the windshield off if doing serious off-road, it's just one less thing to break or whack your head into.
Came across this vid of a AT with a paddle tire on it at some sand dunes. I personally think he would of had a even better time IF he would of put a sand tire on the front too..
 

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Ooh, that's a good idea, sometimes a tumble would leave you closer to the kickstand than the handlebar killswitch.

The settings will remain if you use the handlebar switch to stop the engine, as long as you don't touch the key. That is handy for quick stops on the trail.
Interesting avatar @pond. (y)

Welcome to the Forum!

Feel free to introduce yourself at the New Member Introductions area of the Forum.
 

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Is there a way to have the bike remember TCS and ABS settings between key-off cycles? I do a lot of dropping the bike when I go in the sand pits, and it is annoying to be held up holding the buttons down every time I have to cycle the key to reset the tip-over sensor. 2019 ATAS no DCT.

Riding on deep sand is all but impossible with any level of the TCS kicking in. You have to keep the power on otherwise the front end sinks and you go down. I don't even turn the power setting to low anymore, just rip the throttle and let 'er eat! Definitely strange learning how to handle such a heavy bike off-road. Learn how to steer by spinning the rear tire until you are pointed where you want to go, the handlebars are secondary haha. Transitioning into a very loose area from one with traction is unnerving, the bars feel like they are doing a full lock-to-lock tank-slapper, you just have to stay on the gas and you'll float above the lumps and be alright. It's terrifying, initially, but the weight of the bike makes it very unforgiving if you deviate from this policy of throttle throttle throttle.

Full dirt tires are also a must, I wouldn't even want to do mild single track with something like a TKC80 with this bike. I fit a 140/80 Pirelli Scorpion on the rear rim, and a 90/90 D606 up front, and it works well.

Here's the last time the bike was ever clean, now there is sand and pinecones in every crevice, and 'character' scuffs all over. The crash bars do their job!
View attachment 60407

I recommend taking the windshield off if doing serious off-road, it's just one less thing to break or whack your head into.
Try setting the user mode with the values you want. It is supposed to hold those settings until you change them again. I suspect you will have to push the ABS button each time you restart but one button is better than many.
 

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Ooh, that's a good idea, sometimes a tumble would leave you closer to the kickstand than the handlebar killswitch.

The settings will remain if you use the handlebar switch to stop the engine, as long as you don't touch the key. That is handy for quick stops on the trail.
They will also remain on using the side stand. As long as you don't turn the key they should be retained.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 

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Ooh, that's a good idea, sometimes a tumble would leave you closer to the kickstand than the handlebar killswitch.

The settings will remain if you use the handlebar switch to stop the engine, as long as you don't touch the key. That is handy for quick stops on the trail.
Unfortunately, if she decides it's naptime and cuts the engine, you have to key OFF&ON to restart which means all the settings go to default.
Yeah, she's all that! But I love it :)
 
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