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Hi Greg the Pole, hi all!

Does the AT standard rims have a hump (front & rear rim)?

I'm thinking to go for a tubeless solution as well but, I'm afraid to go for tubeless on rims WITHOUT a hump!

Many thanks for the feedback, gerhard
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
AFAIK, the standard rims do not have ‘the hump’.
The front doesn't. The back does. It's in the blog post.
Notice the ridge on the rear rim
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/38708162734/in/album-72157688922770082/

Speaking to a guy in Japan that has outex on his at for 25k km now, OUtex recommends running TL type tires, not TT (TL-TubeLess, TT-TubeType). The oem dunlop is a TT, so I re-fitted the tube for safety sake.

Lot's of 21" tires are TL (Shinko 804, TKC 80, any road biased tire). Sadly Mitas E07 are TT.
The bulk of rear tires are TL, including the oem dunshit.

Greg
 

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C'mon people, don't be completely lazy. Even though he chose not to discuss pros n cons, the rear safety bead can be clearly seen in the photos that he took the time to share.
 

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Many thanks mates!

So my understanding:

On rear Outex is possible with the Honda rim and TL tires.

On front it would be better/saver to respoke to a rim with a hump and use Outex than - as well together with TL tires.

Greetings, gerhard
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Many thanks mates!

So my understanding:

On rear Outex is possible with the Honda rim and TL tires.

On front it would be better/saver to respoke to a rim with a hump and use Outex than - as well together with TL tires.

Greetings, gerhard
Hi Gerhard,
Rear wheel has the hump, and you can run any TL tire. In fact, I ran the **** stock dunlop for 3.5km with zero issues.
On the front, for TT tires I use a tube with the outex. For TL tires like my shinko, I'm running full tubless. Zero issues, as I never drop pressure, and will install a tire monitor to keep an eye out
Thanksgiving long weekend ride
 

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Outex did work for me in the back. Front was leaking air. Had to re-do front with 3M Extreme sealing tape 4411. Works great! Better that Outex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Outex did work for me in the back. Front was leaking air. Had to re-do front with 3M Extreme sealing tape 4411. Works great! Better that Outex.
it seems that it's hit and miss for some folks on the outex. I'm on my 3rd front tire, and the front tape is a bit beat up from my tubes getting twisted and mangled, otherwise holding air great.
The rear is perfect. 3rd tire as well.
 

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My plan is to use 3M 4411n 1-1/2” wide in the front and 4412n 2” wide on the back. The 4412n is thicker, which will be better on the back where it’s more likely to get beat up while tire mounting/dismounting. I’ll probably cover the sealing tape with a layer of Gorilla duct tape to help avoid that.

I’ve got Shinko 705’s to be mounted both front and rear. They are a mildly more aggressive tread than the Dunlop stock tires. Interestingly the Shinko are rated for both tube and tubeless use. What I really want is being tubeless so puncture flats are less work to fix out on the road. I tend not to air down much if any. And my thought is that a TT front tire with a tube will deflate and come off the rim just as fast as a tubeless onebwill, so the lack of a safety bead is not a big deal to me.

Depending on how these work on the AT I may go to a 50/50 DOT knobby next round.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm not sure the gorilla tape is necessary. My rear rim is in better shape than my front rim. Zero damage, three tires on that rim now.


I found the front wheel more finicky than the rear. Take your time, and make sure you have sanded the rim down, and cleaned it with alcohol. A warm and clean envirnonment helps. Let us know how it goes for ya.
 

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Hi All,
Just bought a new 2017 AT, picking her up in a few weeks once I sell my Varadero :(
Bit worried about tubed tires and what can happen if you get a leak or puncture at High speed.
Has anyone installed the Outex system but still use tubes and tubed tires, just so that if there is a leak or puncture, the tire won’t deflate as quickly? Basically my thinking is that even if the tube is compromised, the outex system will prevent all the air from escaping too quickly. Would this work? Is there any reason why you can’t use the outex and a tube together?
Thanks in advance,
 
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It seems to me that the weak spot would be the valve stem. If the tube is punctured the fit of the stem will be the only thing to maybe keep the air in.

I am right now doing the 3M route, have the rear done but not aired up yet.
 

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It seems to me that the weak spot would be the valve stem. If the tube is punctured the fit of the stem will be the only thing to maybe keep the air in.

I am right now doing the 3M route, have the rear done but not aired up yet.
Thanks for your reply. True that the valve stem would likely move quite quickly and then let all the air out. Perhaps some type of sleeve around the valve stem or even a little circle of silicone around it to try keeping some air in?
I'm mainly looking to at least have enough time, maybe 30 seconds or so, to slow down the moment I fell any change in the ride and be able to check. Thought about a tire pressure monitor but if the air leaks as quickly as people say it can, by the time you see the numbers crashing down, you're also crashing down...
 

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Looks like a good system too, and possibly more "extensive" than the outex.

Did some more research on the matter and with all props to David Peterson, I would recommend to all interested in converting that you read his "Tubes vs Tubeless" pdf report on bestrestproducts.

He basically says that the back rim can be converted using the 3M method easily to run a tubeless tire, and if done properly should last a long time. As for the front, do the conversion, but still throw a tube in there and then silicone patch the valve stem. That way, you can do a tubeless repair that will last long enough to get home or to a place to do a full repair of the tube, with the added benefit that a puncture from a nail or screw will not immediately deflate the whole tire and send you flying. The relevant bit on the pdf report is quoted below, I trust this is okay and all credit to bestrestproducts.

If anyone has tried this already, do let me know. And more, if anyone wants to try this and lives anywhere around London and has some space to work and tools, I'll be happy to do it together once I get my Africa Twin in a few weeks and decide I hate the oem dunlops... >:)

QUOTE
Footnote #1 – Woody’s Front Rim Conversion Exclusion, and how to solve the problem When considering the friendly and professional counsel given me by the staff at Woody’s Wheel Works, I pondered the issue. What it boils down to is this: Woody’s is comfortable converting a rear wheel to tubeless, but not the front. This applies to big adventure bikes only. There must be something to this, otherwise they’d be doing a land office business converting front wheels on big bikes and making a tidy profit in the process. I have nothing but respect for Woody and his staff, but I think I have an easy solution to the problem.
It’s pretty simple: convert the tubed rim to tubeless, but put a tube inside.
1. Convert the front rim using 3M sealant and 3M tape, as shown in my Option 3 Video. You’ll get the advantages of running a tubeless tire, including quick and easy tire repairs.
20
2. Don’t install a tubeless valve stem in the rim as shown in the video, instead leave that hole open for the tube’s valve stem.
3. Before you spoon the second tire bead onto the rim, install the tube. Yes, install the tube! Before you put the valve stem through the rim, put some silicone caulk on the shoulder of the stem. Don’t use the same 3M sealing caulk you used to seal the spokes; it’s permanent and you’ll want to be able to remove that stem someday.
4. Put a dab of silicone caulk in the hole where the valve stem passes thru the rim, tighten down the lock nut, and now you’ve sealed that air passage. Let that silicone cure before you inflate.
5. You’ve basically converted that front tire into a hybrid tubed/tubeless system, using BOTH systems at the same time. Think of this as cross-breeding a giraffe with a zebra, ending up with a lion, all while balancing on a unicycle. Easy peasy, I do stuff like that all the time, don’t you? I also play with explosive gasses and use them to seat a tubeless tire in the field.
6. Once inflated, the tube will push the tire sidewalls outward, holding the tubeless tire in place. That hypothetical tubeless-tire-rolling-off-the-rim problem has been solved.
This concept provides all the benefits of having a tube inside the rim (keeping the tire where it belongs), plus all the benefits of running a tubeless tire (ease of puncture repair).
If you get a puncture, big deal, the tube will go flat. No problem, make a repair to the main tire carcass using a vulcanizing string, then inflate. Five minutes and you’re on the road again. Yes, that inner tube will still have a hole in it, but who cares? The outer tire carcass will still be holding air.
When you have a chance, take things apart and make repairs to the tube using a vulcanizing patch. As you’re doing that, cut off the inner loop of the vulcanizing string, otherwise that loop will cause a hot spot in the new (or repaired) tube.
UNQUOTE
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
no issues running outex and tube. I did it as I bought a TT tire, not a TL tire.
I ran the OEM dunlops with the outex for 3500km with no issues. Tube in front, no tube in the back.
I"ve had two flats on one trip, with a front tube/outex combo.
On the 1st flat the tube went flat, but tire held enough air to coax it to a stop 5k later.
I re-inflated the tire, and continued for the rest of the day. It held fine.
Upon inspection it seemed the tube rubbed on the inside of the tire and lost air. It wasn't a puncture.

The 2nd flat was my mistake, as I didn't inflate the tube while putting it in the rim, and had twisted it. On hard braking the tube popped, and it was basically un rideable.


It's hit and miss with the valve stem..I've since gone full tubeless with tubeless tires. I've fitted a TPMS for extra piece of mind.
 

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no issues running outex and tube. I did it as I bought a TT tire, not a TL tire.
I ran the OEM dunlops with the outex for 3500km with no issues. Tube in front, no tube in the back.
I"ve had two flats on one trip, with a front tube/outex combo.
On the 1st flat the tube went flat, but tire held enough air to coax it to a stop 5k later.
I re-inflated the tire, and continued for the rest of the day. It held fine.
Upon inspection it seemed the tube rubbed on the inside of the tire and lost air. It wasn't a puncture.

The 2nd flat was my mistake, as I didn't inflate the tube while putting it in the rim, and had twisted it. On hard braking the tube popped, and it was basically un rideable.


It's hit and miss with the valve stem..I've since gone full tubeless with tubeless tires. I've fitted a TPMS for extra piece of mind.
Thanks Greg. ****, I love your setup, bike looks great.

Very good to hear a first hand account of the outex and tube up front and no tube in the back. That's what I plan to do, although I'm leaning towards the 3M option. But what happened on your first flat is exactly what I want ie the tube to hold air and let me get to a safe place instead of full flat at 80mph. Did you do anything to try to seal the valve stem?


Do you mean you've now gone full tubeless in the front too? No problems with the front rim not have the bead inner ledge?
Would be happy to know what TPMS you're using (and to what you wired it to) and whether you have installed metal valve stems to better hold the weight of the valve caps.
Thanks very much in advance.
 

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So, I’m not understanding the advantage of the combination outer ant tube up front. Why not just retain the normal tube up front with no sealant and switch to a sealed fully tubeless config in the rear?
 

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So, I’m not understanding the advantage of the combination outer ant tube up front. Why not just retain the normal tube up front with no sealant and switch to a sealed fully tubeless config in the rear?
See the quoted section in my post 16 above, gives a full explanation. Basically, the tire won't go flat in a second, the tire will remain on the rim and if needed you can plug the tire and still ride enough to do a full repair later on. Many people say that a tubeless 21 inch tire is no good, being too narrow and not having the bead guard on the rim, meaning that even with outex, the tire might not hold the bead enough to keep the air in. A large bump in the road could make the tire "burp" air out. Unless you get a set of the alpine rims that have the bead guard.
 
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