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Keeping’em Moderatorated
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious on what you all are using for navigation with your phone and how (also how well) it works for you.
Right now for travel I use my Zumo, my iPhone , and my Senia. The Zumo is the “hub” both the phone and the headset are connected to it, this allows me to have my music, turn by turn instructions, and any phone calls needed. Actually that all works pretty good, it pauses and mutes the song to give me instructions, any incoming calls pop up on the Zumo and if they‘re in my contacts the name comes up too, of co along with pausing the song and alerting me to the call. It warns me when fuel is low and gives me the option to route to gas stations (by adding it into my current rote). If I had the valve caps (Garmin ones) it would monitor my tire pressure and warn when low.

So I really don’t expect and app to do all of this, but what does your app do for you?

Also I will add, the ONLY thing I dislike about Garmin is its routing, they got routing software (Basecamp) you an plan out and map and change the route you want....BUT, then when you download it to the device, hit ”GO” and the GPS quickly remaps and reroutes all the stuff you done in Basecamp so basically its just on big PITA and pretty much worthless. BTW the gps will do this for any .gpx file imported into it. It is the ONLY thing I hate about my Zumo and at time makes it almost worthless to me..
 

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Apologies if you know all this already...

In BaseCamp, use (many) more via points in your route planning and this problem pretty much goes away. You can plot a route from A to B and have exactly two points in the route. The Zumo will "fill" in the rest when it automatically routes and you end up with little control of what roads it uses in the route. If you create via points, you can "force" the route to use certain roads and are filling out the route, leaving the routing less leeway to decide where you want to go in getting from point A to B.

You can do the same thing with imported GPX files as well.
 

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Keeping’em Moderatorated
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Apologies if you know all this already...

In BaseCamp, use (many) more via points in your route planning and this problem pretty much goes away. You can plot a route from A to B and have exactly two points in the route. The Zumo will "fill" in the rest when it automatically routes and you end up with little control of what roads it uses in the route. If you create via points, you can "force" the route to use certain roads and are filling out the route, leaving the routing less leeway to decide where you want to go in getting from point A to B.

You can do the same thing with imported GPX files as well.
No problems
yea I’ve done it that way and it dose work kinda ok, point being what is the use of Basecamp (?) I mean it on its own does work great and you can customize your route, but then it’s kinda useless if after all that as soon as you hit “GO” on your Garmin instead of just LOADING the route it runs/recalibrate’s it. I’ve done it that way. One time I HAD to put in 40+ waypoints just so the Zumo would take that route. It’s just kinda stupid and pointless because the route you plan or see in basecamp may or my not be the route you get on the device.
 

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I've often contended that Garmin's developers do not actually use the product they create... the problem you describe has been around since the beginning and yet nothing has been done to help resolve it. If they automatically added via points during the route creation in BaseCamp, it'd fix it for most routes.
 

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Google Maps here: For walk, run, bicycle, cage and motorcycle. Familiar, predictable, low maintenance, always with me, up-to-date, shareable, and device charged.

Not sure what I would use for offroad yet, but for now that is not an issue for me. If I see a path, I just take it knowing I will come out the way I entered.

Down the [off] road, this approach will likely have to change, or at least be augmented.
 

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Google Maps here: For walk, run, bicycle, cage and motorcycle. Familiar, predictable, low maintenance, always with me, up-to-date, shareable, and charged.

Not sure what I would use for offroad yet, but for now that is not an issue for me. If I see a path, I just take it knowing I will come out the way I entered.

Down the [off] road, this approach will likely have to change, or at least be augmented.
I also use Waze and Google Maps for my day-to-day but with Guru Maps Pro, I create waypoints for areas/roads I would like to return to. I also create tracks of every ride for the same reason. I usually discard most of them when I review at home.
 

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Until this year i was strictly an app user and there are drawbacks there too. ill break it down by app. I apologize in advance for the longwinded post.

Back in the day i used to use the TomTom iphone app. It worked pretty good since it had a "curvy roads" option and it took me on some pretty nice rides. Biggest drawbacks no pre-planning and good luck ever repeating a route. You could set the same destination 10 times from the same starting point and it would calculate a different route every time.

Apple maps, google, wayz etc. All fine if you want to get from point a to b the quickest most effiecent way possible. No pre-planning either. None of these will take you on a ride that is really fun for a motorcycle. Sure you can set it to avoid highways but sometimes it wont regardless if it thinks going down the freeway is the best route.

Scenic- Used this for the last couple of years. If you want to have it calculate a route it works pretty good. You have options to avoid highways and it actually does and you can set a curvy road option which seems to work ok, mostly. Although like the other apps it will never calculate the same route twice. I know this is a unique use case but one thart applies. When my wife and I are riding together its nice for both of us to have turn byt truern in our ear vs one person having to give out directions. What we found with this and everyt other app we have tried is despite both of us starting at the same point and using the same options the app will calculate a totally different route which maked it useless in a group setting. Pre-planning fixes this in theory but pre-planning is where Scenic really falls short in my opinion. There is no way to direct import a GPX so you are pretty much stuck using Furkot which in my opinion is infuriating to use. Once you have your pre-planned route it routes fine as long as you stay on the route 100%. For example if you are on a pre-planned ride and need to deviate off that route for something like fuel the app freaks out and will never pick back up on the pre-planned routem it defaults to calculating a route to the destination point. There is no way to start over and have it re-insert you into a route It will literally try to guide you back to the start point if you try that. There are also bugs in the app that i have run into. First example is constantly low volume on voice guided instructions. I set the volume and is simply reverts back to the original setting, hers does the same. Sometimes the turn by turn give you the wrong guidance so it will say left when the map clearly say right so you have to look at the map every time it gives a direction or else you might get off track. If you pre-planned your route its particularity disastrous.

Rever. Pretty much useless unless you pay the 50 a year sub. Once you do that it works well but some of the routing bugs exist like Scenic. I also think the routing options stink for a motorcycle specific app. Its really no better than apple or google maps in this regard. Where i find Rever to really shine is in two places. Forrrst is it will record and save your rides so if you just go out and explore you can record it and use that same route or parts of it later. The social media aspect is nice too, you can find all kinds of rides that orthers have taken and use them. Beyond those two things i was never really impressed with Rever.

Then there are some drawbacks to using a smartphone period. First being what do you do when it overheats? I have run into this many times When using the GPS they get hot and add sun into the mix and that is a recipe for the phone to overheat and shut down. I used to keep mine in a spot on the bars that got wind just to try to prevent it. There are also weather to be considered and general durability concerns.

These days we are both using Garmin Zumo XT's. In my opinion they are so much better then using the phone. Pre-planning has not been an issue and as mentioned lots of waypoints are better. I also have not had an issue with getting back on a route after getting off it, if you have lots of waypoints it can just reinsert you at the nearest one. I have also played with the "adventurous routing" mode and it seems to work pretty good. We have also had zero issues with route calculation on the two devices. Set the destination and it will calculate the same route. We can also share a route between devices easily if we want to. Over all its been a much better experience.
 

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FWIW, Scenic does support importing a GPX (I think added in V2). I put GPX files in my iCloud Drive, tap and hold on the GPX file and "share" to Scenic. The same works for most other iOS navigation apps.

Without intending any offence, I think a lot of folks expect too much from their navigation apps, especially when it comes to finding a curvy route. The algorithms to calculate curvy roads simply cannot be perfect and is entirely at the mercy of the mapping data. Given that a lot of the map data in these smartphone apps is crowd sourced (OpenStreetMaps, for example), the map is only as good as the past contributors.

I will not argue that Furkot doesn't have issues. They've done a pretty great job of it, but as an example, the whole multi-day "feature" gets in the way most of the time. Just let me plan my trip and I will figure out when/where I will stop. And yes, I know it can be turned off/mitigated but it's still excessively intrusive. I'd hazard a guess and say that most people aren't planning multi-day trips on it. Some of us work for a living :)

I have used a smartphone as a navigation tool since it was possible. My first was a BlackBerry Pearl, with I believe, a TomTom app (2008?) and then the iPhone 4 with Motion-X GPS in 2010. I live/ride in Ontario, Canada and have never had an issue with a smartphone overheating even up on the bars, even in noon sun. I know those in the south will have a different experience, but it's never been an issue for me.

I know smartphones aren't for everybody but most people already have them and the cost of entry for a navigation app is quite low. Some are useful in their "free" versions, but even at $50/year, that's a fraction of the price of a Garmin Zumo XT. Hell, pay for Scenic or Rever for your riding season and it's literally pennies per day.

With all of this said, I have not ruled out a Zumo XT either. I've gone back and forth between my Oregon 450, Android-based apps, and now am mostly focused on iOS apps. Now that I've got a 2020 AS coming this week, my focus is on what apps work best with the integrated CarPlay.
 

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Keeping’em Moderatorated
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yea I have yet to see any app that comes even close to what my current system does. In my opinion it would be perfect IF I could easily get my preplanned route onto my Zumo as the exact route I planned. For the most part it does do a good job routing, occasionally it does have a hard time keeping me OFF freeways.
 
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Yea I have yet to see any app that comes even close to what my current system does. In my opinion it would be perfect IF I could easily get my preplanned route onto my Zumo as the exact route I planned. For the most part it does do a good job routing, occasionally it does have a hard time keeping me OFF freeways.
I know a lot of folks don't like Garmin Basecamp, because it has a fairly steep learning curve and can be a bit twitchy/fidgity in how things are done. But I have used it so much it's become second nature.

It works perfectly for our purposes of pre-planning routes for for both my wife and I and for club/group rides. We can share them to one or many. They import for everyone the same so they can ride at their own pace and follow along. You can search along the route for gas, food, lodging at whatever mileage or time interval you choose, etc. and maintain a library of. gpx files for various routes, rides, trips, states, etc.

I really haven't found a phone app I have found all that useful for more than planning a day trip. I found Scenic to be the best of these, but after switching to a Samsung this year I tried Calimito.

I hate Calimito but not quite as much as I hate Rever for trying to plan a route on the phone. Rever does however have a better web based planner than Calimito for trip planning on the computer IMHO.

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Plan your trip in BaseCamp and use the exported GPX with whatever smartphone app you want. In the case of Locus or OSMand, if you convert your route to a track in BaseCamp to maintain the route, it'll guide you through a track (which itself has implications but mostly works... common theme here).
 

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Keeping’em Moderatorated
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yea I’m just whining that we shouldn’t have to do that, ok , IF Basecamp was new software, fine, bugs, not importing the correct route. But it’s not; the software is 15+ yrs old. Made for Garmin. Yes there are walk around‘s that help keep the route you made (somewhat). But the whole point of Basecamp is to make routes and transfer them to the GPS, but what is the point? You make the route you want, transfer it, hit go and the GPS pretty much ignore’s all that work you did, recalculates the route and makes its own. I had one route it always took me literally 60+ miles out of the way EVERY time it recalculated the route no matter what setting it was on (fastest, shortest,etc.). Even though there were paved non toll roads available. I just got pissed and when I came to that intersection turned the direction I wanted to go and after about a mile or two of asking me to make a u-turn it finally mapped out the route. But like I said Basecamp is supposed to be for you to make a route you want and use that route. But the Garmin GPS just does what it wants and makes a new route for you so why even have/use Basecamp.
 

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+1 for gaiagps. Has been fantastic for creating routes, tracking routes, finding routes from others, etc.

My annual subscription renews this month and I have no qualms about signing up for another year.
 

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Yea I’m just whining that we shouldn’t have to do that, ok , IF Basecamp was new software, fine, bugs, not importing the correct route. But it’s not; the software is 15+ yrs old. Made for Garmin. Yes there are walk around‘s that help keep the route you made (somewhat). But the whole point of Basecamp is to make routes and transfer them to the GPS, but what is the point? You make the route you want, transfer it, hit go and the GPS pretty much ignore’s all that work you did, recalculates the route and makes its own. I had one route it always took me literally 60+ miles out of the way EVERY time it recalculated the route no matter what setting it was on (fastest, shortest,etc.). Even though there were paved non toll roads available. I just got pissed and when I came to that intersection turned the direction I wanted to go and after about a mile or two of asking me to make a u-turn it finally mapped out the route. But like I said Basecamp is supposed to be for you to make a route you want and use that route. But the Garmin GPS just does what it wants and makes a new route for you so why even have/use Basecamp.
Wait what... maybe I have misunderstood. You have had issues with Basecamp doing this?

Honestly my wife and I have never had this issue with either of ours, using the Mac or the PC version. I am not sure why, but it uploads perfectly to both of our Zumos and to others in the club who are going on the ride. No rerouting or doing anything weird. No surprises. Route is always just as we planned it in Basecamp.

No complaints or issues so far from others in the club either . I wonder what we may be doing different?

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In my experience, typically if you’re having issues with route consistency between BaseCamp and a Garmin GPS, it’s because the maps don’t match.


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Keeping’em Moderatorated
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wait what... maybe I have misunderstood. You have had issues with Basecamp doing this?

Honestly my wife and I have never had this issue with either of ours, using the Mac or the PC version. I am not sure why, but it uploads perfectly to both of our Zumos and to others in the club who are going on the ride. No rerouting or doing anything weird. No surprises. Route is always just as we planned it in Basecamp.

No complaints or issues so far from others in the club either . I wonder what we may be doing different?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Yes mine reroutes my trips, but now that i read ‘MF’s” post below, I’m gonna have to check and see if it is a map issue. I do have a few maps installed on both Basecamp and my Zumo

In my experience, typically if you’re having issues with route consistency between BaseCamp and a Garmin GPS, it’s because the maps don’t match.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks I’ll have to check that out...
 

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Yes mine reroutes my trips, but now that i read ‘MF’s” post below, I’m gonna have to check and see if it is a map issue. I do have a few maps installed on both Basecamp and my Zumo


Thanks I’ll have to check that out...
I believe that what EmmEff says is particularly true if you have "Always match route to the map on my device when transferring" (File-->Options-->Device Transfer) and the map versions are not the same between Basecamp and the GPS.
 

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Yes mine reroutes my trips, but now that i read ‘MF’s” post below, I’m gonna have to check and see if it is a map issue. I do have a few maps installed on both Basecamp and my Zumo

Thanks I’ll have to check that out...
Another thought I had on this, though you have probably already thought of it, is to make sure that you don't have any avoidances set on your GPS that might cause it to override the imported route. For example, the route contains off-roads, roundabouts, u-turns, etc. and you have those set as avoidances on your GPS.

I am pretty thorough with waypoints as well, so I am not even sure what the GPS would re-route to, if it decided to try to re-route, other than the waypoints I set :)
 

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FWIW, Scenic does support importing a GPX (I think added in V2). I put GPX files in my iCloud Drive, tap and hold on the GPX file and "share" to Scenic. The same works for most other iOS navigation apps.

Without intending any offence, I think a lot of folks expect too much from their navigation apps, especially when it comes to finding a curvy route. The algorithms to calculate curvy roads simply cannot be perfect and is entirely at the mercy of the mapping data. Given that a lot of the map data in these smartphone apps is crowd sourced (OpenStreetMaps, for example), the map is only as good as the past contributors.

I will not argue that Furkot doesn't have issues. They've done a pretty great job of it, but as an example, the whole multi-day "feature" gets in the way most of the time. Just let me plan my trip and I will figure out when/where I will stop. And yes, I know it can be turned off/mitigated but it's still excessively intrusive. I'd hazard a guess and say that most people aren't planning multi-day trips on it. Some of us work for a living :)

I have used a smartphone as a navigation tool since it was possible. My first was a BlackBerry Pearl, with I believe, a TomTom app (2008?) and then the iPhone 4 with Motion-X GPS in 2010. I live/ride in Ontario, Canada and have never had an issue with a smartphone overheating even up on the bars, even in noon sun. I know those in the south will have a different experience, but it's never been an issue for me.

I know smartphones aren't for everybody but most people already have them and the cost of entry for a navigation app is quite low. Some are useful in their "free" versions, but even at $50/year, that's a fraction of the price of a Garmin Zumo XT. ****, pay for Scenic or Rever for your riding season and it's literally pennies per day.

With all of this said, I have not ruled out a Zumo XT either. I've gone back and forth between my Oregon 450, Android-based apps, and now am mostly focused on iOS apps. Now that I've got a 2020 AS coming this week, my focus is on what apps work best with the integrated CarPlay.
I personally don't think that expecting an app to tell give you correct turn instructions or the ability to be able put you back on a route is asking too much of them. Not getting left vs right correct is simply sloppy code. I also think the curvy road thing should be a given for ANY motorcycle based GPS given that Tom Tom did it and did it well back in 2010 which is a light year ago in software tech. Its too bad they removed that feature from the newer versions. The fact that Rever left that out of an app that is specifically aimed as motorcycle riding is a massive omission in my opinion.

The overheating thing is something i am surprised you have never run into. I live in New England which is probably not all that much different than Ontario would be for the most part depending on where in Ontario you are. I also live near the ocean so we tend to be cooler here than inland. I have seen mine overheat on a 65F fall day when exposed to too much sun, it has happened to me a lot both on and off the bike. I have even see it in Northern Maine when using my phone as a GPS in the woods with the phone in my pocket. The iPhone which is what i use has a max ambient temp for use of 95F anything higher and you risk it powering off to protect the battery. It has been my experience that a phone is great as a GPS in a car where you can control the climate, as an outdoors unit not so much.
 
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