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My final experiment will be to change the array of map cells from a 40 by 8 as it is now to a 30 by 10. That will allow me to make a lot finer adjustments at the bottom end because I can have columns for 0%, 2%, 4% 7% 10% ... then jumping up by the normal amounts that the EVO uses.
A Google search throws up that South Africa intended to adopt Euro regulations but then didn't
Mike
Interesting that the software gives that possibility, sounds like a pretty solid plan to me since the bike does all it's (for me) annoying stuff in the lower rpms. So you can add the 0% but the evo doesn't autocorrect anything below 2000 rpm? Than what's that percentage in relation to? throttle position? I would think 0% at 2000 rpm would result in something different from 0% at 1300rpm

Anyways...don't care if I get a fraction more torque and such somewhere in the mids or highs...although that's welcome too I mainly want that bottom end to be silky smooth so I can do a u turn with 235kg under me without squeezing me buttocks in anticipation of a fartstall. How's that for accomplishments...bottom end...silky smooth....buttocks..and fart all in one sentence.
 

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Interesting that the software gives that possibility, sounds like a pretty solid plan to me since the bike does all it's (for me) annoying stuff in the lower rpms. So you can add the 0% but the evo doesn't autocorrect anything below 2000 rpm? Than what's that percentage in relation to? throttle position? I would think 0% at 2000 rpm would result in something different from 0% at 1300rpm

Anyways...don't care if I get a fraction more torque and such somewhere in the mids or highs...although that's welcome too I mainly want that bottom end to be silky smooth so I can do a u turn with 235kg under me without squeezing me buttocks in anticipation of a fartstall. How's that for accomplishments...bottom end...silky smooth....buttocks..and fart all in one sentence.
Yes Will - me too - it's nice to ride creamy smooth with extra midrange (probably top end too), but the bike was fine for me in those ranges. The thing is when I first rode it with the EVO as supplied it seemed to be much smoother at the bottom end and the lurching wasn;t there. So either I have got used to the new smoothness and obviously am never satisfied, or ...... the Honda ECU forces it back to what it is obliged to deliver, and the EVO can only fool it for a while. This was the feeling on the NC forum about all these kinds of devices. IIRC people said that manufacturers were obliged to put a cheat-defeat system in their ECU's but only in the closed loop area - which I think is exactly the area that you and I are wanting to fix. However, when I sent the Rapidbike Evo technical explanation to a very knowledgeable engineering type on the NC forum - he seemed to say that Rapidbike's approach could well work. So I am still hoping.
By the way my thinking is that 0% means a closed throttle and PROBABLY when you are decelerating that means the ECU cuts off all fuel to the injectors - this would be important for meeting the emissions control targets. So I am not sure that anything the EVO does can override this instruction from the ECU during deceleration (hence any attempt at changing engine braking in this closed loop area would be doomed). However, when the bike is idling, the ECU must be programmed to provide some fuel, and on my bike and probably yours, it's this idle level that is causing the problem. on/off irregular squirts of fuel are causing that irregular idle and the jerky feeling in U-turns.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #203 ·
Yes Will - me too - it's nice to ride creamy smooth with extra midrange (probably top end too), but the bike was fine for me in those ranges. The thing is when I first rode it with the EVO as supplied it seemed to be much smoother at the bottom end and the lurching wasn;t there. So either I have got used to the new smoothness and obviously am never satisfied, or ...... the Honda ECU forces it back to what it is obliged to deliver, and the EVO can only fool it for a while. This was the feeling on the NC forum about all these kinds of devices. IIRC people said that manufacturers were obliged to put a cheat-defeat system in their ECU's but only in the closed loop area - which I think is exactly the area that you and I are wanting to fix. However, when I sent the Rapidbike Evo technical explanation to a very knowledgeable engineering type on the NC forum - he seemed to say that Rapidbike's approach could well work. So I am still hoping.
By the way my thinking is that 0% means a closed throttle and PROBABLY when you are decelerating that means the ECU cuts off all fuel to the injectors - this would be important for meeting the emissions control targets. So I am not sure that anything the EVO does can override this instruction from the ECU during deceleration (hence any attempt at changing engine braking in this closed loop area would be doomed). However, when the bike is idling, the ECU must be programmed to provide some fuel, and on my bike and probably yours, it's this idle level that is causing the problem. on/off irregular squirts of fuel are causing that irregular idle and the jerky feeling in U-turns.

Mike
A question to you both Mike & Will, do you have the 2018 or 2019 models?
 

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2016 late, no idea if it's really an early 2017 but i guess that doesn't matter.
Mike, here's mine cold start at idle parked in an unheated garage where it's 3 Celsius right now
 

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Yeah Will that's more or less what mine sounds like (and what my 2017 bike sounded like). Does it get better when thoroughly warmed up?
My current bike was registered on March 1st 2019 but I'm not sure whether it was made in late 2018 🤷‍♂️
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #206 ·
Mike, i assume you definitely have the ride by wire model..? Mine is a late 2019 model, now you know the Japs.., they might have updated the software in the idle area.. without telling anyone.. Otherwise you have an issue somewhere as i mentioned here previously. My low end doing u turns is really so predictable & smooth, Let me put it this way, i can even play with the throttle to vary the amount of clutch engagement right at the bottom without any on/off stuff. Since the evo install it has a tad more torque here that i had to adjust to slightly.. I actually recalled recently from memory that i was quite pleased with this model being able to control the clutch engagement so well with a DCT.
 

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Mike, i assume you definitely have the ride by wire model..? Mine is a late 2019 model, now you know the Japs.., they might have updated the software in the idle area.. without telling anyone.. Otherwise you have an issue somewhere as i mentioned here previously. My low end doing u turns is really so predictable & smooth, Let me put it this way, i can even play with the throttle to vary the amount of clutch engagement right at the bottom without any on/off stuff. Since the evo install it has a tad more torque here that i had to adjust to slightly.. I actually recalled recently from memory that i was quite pleased with this model being able to control the clutch engagement so well with a DCT.
I think you are the lucky one rather than me and Will being unlucky. My bike is ride-by-wire (the MCC cruise control was for a rbw bike). I've ridden 4 demonstrators over the past few years - two were standards models like my bike and two were 1100 2020 sports. All of them displayed the same uneven idle as my bike (maybe it's a UK thing 🤷‍♂️)
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #208 ·
I think you are the lucky one rather than me and Will being unlucky. My bike is ride-by-wire (the MCC cruise control was for a rbw bike). I've ridden 4 demonstrators over the past few years - two were standards models like my bike and two were 1100 2020 sports. All of them displayed the same uneven idle as my bike (maybe it's a UK thing 🤷‍♂️)
Mike
Yes i must tend to agree that it must be a UK thing.. Although i have had a 2017 manual from new & i had to put it in sport 1 to get rid of most of that erratic on off throttle response in traffic.. Try sport mode 1 & see if that does not remove that problem somewhat just as an experiment.. If this works you could use this setting selectively as needed..
 

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Yes i must tend to agree that it must be a UK thing.. Although i have had a 2017 manual from new & i had to put it in sport 1 to get rid of most of that erratic on off throttle response in traffic.. Try sport mode 1 & see if that does not remove that problem somewhat just as an experiment.. If this works you could use this setting selectively as needed..
tried every setting from Gravel mode to sport 1 and engine power modes 1 to 3 and engine braking 1 to 3. Some feel slightly better but then I think it's psychosomatic 😄 If it's down to the harshness between no-fuel and any-fuel then there's probably nothing we can do about it, but it's odd that it should only be like that over here and not in some other countries.
Mike
PS - that makes it sound like I am unhappy with the bike, and I'm not, I think it's brilliant .... just trying to make it perfect thats all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #210 ·
tried every setting from Gravel mode to sport 1 and engine power modes 1 to 3 and engine braking 1 to 3. Some feel slightly better but then I think it's psychosomatic 😄 If it's down to the harshness between no-fuel and any-fuel then there's probably nothing we can do about it, but it's odd that it should only be like that over here and not in some other countries.
Mike
PS - that makes it sound like I am unhappy with the bike, and I'm not, I think it's brilliant .... just trying to make it perfect thats all.
It is a real pity that you cannot experience the same as i do.. My bike is perfect for me now & i say this with ease. The evo has improved my bike in every way from that bit of dullness to something more alive & more enjoyable..Al least when you fancy a bit more fun your bike is going to be more wiling to please you in that regard..
 

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I got my switch (for changing maps on the fly). I worked out a way of routing the wire that avoid taking any panels off so here's a few shots so you can see how I did it. You do have to remove the black plastic strip along the side of the tank and also the little piece at the back of the tank. The place I have fitted it is not the obvious position (which would be the lower bolt for the mirror clamp), but I have the MCCcruise selector fastened to that clamp and I didn't want to disturb it.
Mike


 

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so the switch works. The manuals are not very good at explaining things but I now have two maps in the unit. One is more or less the raw unaltered Honda ecu map and the other is the one Ive been fiddling with for about a week (so quite a bit richer in lots of places). I think it's going to be good to experiment with as it definitely switches on the fly, as you can tell from the engine note and the Status screen on the computer that shows how much the injectors are being richened up in real time. It doesn't quite work how I thought it would but I can see a way to do what I want.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #213 ·
Great stuff, so when you flip the switch it shows the raw map with 0 in all cells & learning disabled..?
 

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Great stuff, so when you flip the switch it shows the raw map with 0 in all cells & learning disabled..?
It's not quite that simple. The 'learning' via the autoadaptivity feature has to apply to both maps. So as I want one map to stay as the OEM Honda map I have to set the max and min (enrichment/enleanment) to zero for both. But I can work for a while perfecting the richer map (with autoadaptivity enabled to say + or - 10%, and when it's done its thing I can load that on top of the base map I was developing, and save it).
There is another way of using the switch because it allows you to set the O2sens target separately for each of the two maps. So what I might try is two completely zero base maps but one with O2sens set lean at (say) 42 and the other set rich at 44 (which is how the Full Termignoni map came.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #215 ·
I vaguely recall the Dimsport support person saying that you set the "switched" map to 42 which is standard & make base map all 0 ..? Are you sure the adaptivity +- setting on flipping the switch is not separate? If so then you set -+ to 0 adaptivity enrichment, this shall then not do any adaptivity in any case..
 

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You are correct Africano you can disable the autoadaptivity on Map2 whilst leaving it working on Map1. (It has to be this way around but it's not clear from the instructions. Dimsport sent me a video of how to install two maps).
So I have gone back to square 1 and I'm delighted to report that things are nearly all good again.
Map 1 is now the 2018 DCT as supplied as part of their software, AND autoadaptivity is set to 44 for the O2SEns target. This seems to be critical as I have been working with the target setting lower than this (43 and 42) in an attempt to get better fuel consumption. I've just done 50 miles on that map and MPG might not be as totally awful as I expected. I will run it to the end of the tank then switch to Map 2 and compare. Map2 is now set according to Dimsport's instructions to give me the Honda OEM tune.
Mike
 

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Curious as to how it will turn out with the fuel consumption. Have you tried the change of the array of map cells from a 40 by 8 to a 30 by 10 as you were planning?

Had brief contact with a tuner/importer here who sells the rapid bike. He does recommend the rapid bike for the AT and says he has seen good results on the one AT he tuned (he doesn't sell the power commanders and says those are more for top power because the lambda will overrule anything it does in the lower revs) but the owner still not being happy cause he wanted more bhp...which simply means buying a different bike.
 

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Curious as to how it will turn out with the fuel consumption. Have you tried the change of the array of map cells from a 40 by 8 to a 30 by 10 as you were planning?

Had brief contact with a tuner/importer here who sells the rapid bike. He does recommend the rapid bike for the AT and says he has seen good results on the one AT he tuned (he doesn't sell the power commanders and says those are more for top power because the lambda will overrule anything it does in the lower revs) but the owner still not being happy cause he wanted more bhp...which simply means buying a different bike.
Going to create the 30 by 10 map from what the autoadaptive feature does to map1 currently in the bike - so that will be about another 100 miles on it. I will add the autoadaptive results into the base map1, print it out then try to think through how the cells might look if it was more nuanced at the lower TPS percentages. When I have done that I will load it into the bike as map 1 and report back.
Mike
 

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Mmmmm....almost bought the rapid bike evo but haulted at the question if i wanted a map preloaded which was €50 extra?!....would I need that for the AT or would i be fine with the software and uploading a map myself? Noticing i'm having doubts anyways...
 

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Discussion Starter · #220 ·
Mmmmm....almost bought the rapid bike evo but haulted at the question if i wanted a map preloaded which was €50 extra?!....would I need that for the AT or would i be fine with the software and uploading a map myself? Noticing i'm having doubts anyways...
Hi Will, the Rapid bike master software that is downloaded for free has the standard map for your bike, so you just load the map when you connect it up to your pc, no problem..
 
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