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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you have one here's the first thing to check - is it working?
I decided to tape mine to the tank with the lid off and was not too surprised to find that several times the RBE failed to start working even when the engine had got up to temperature. I don't know the answer to this problem and neither did the importer when I called him.
It's possible to get the RBE to start by two methods that I discovered. One is to switch the bike's ignition off after getting to temperature and almost straightaway after restarting the RBE goes from steady into flashing mode. The second method is to turn the 'setting' trimmer from position 2 to position 1 - this sometimes works and allows you to turn it back to position 2 (the recommended position) and the RBE led still continues to flash. But here's another thing - when the RBE is getting power BEFORE the engine is started the LED flashes just the same as when everything is supposed to be operating properly (ie the engine warmed up and the RBE modifying the fuel air ratio). It would have been much more sensible for DIMsport to make the unit flash (say) quickly before the engine is started and then slowly when it's doing it's job. My suspicion is that sometimes you think the unit is in operating mode, but it thinks the engine hasn't been started yet !!!
Why is all this important - because the effects for me were so subtle that I couldn't notice much difference. That's why I decided to watch the unit in action - and the other advantage was it allowed me to tweak it easily during a trip. Before I discovered it sometimes wasn't working, I had emailed the importer who said I could try tweaking either trimmer to richen up the mixture a bit more from the standard settings. During this conversation he told me that the 'setting' trimmer was so that the unit knew what type of o2 sensor it was talking to (Honda, Yamaha etc). OK - that sounds logical, but surely then altering that trimmer would make no sense at all - it surely wouldn't richen or lean the fuel, it would just give confused information to the unit? That cannot be the whole story though because you are supposed to use the setting trimmer on setting 2 for stock exhaust and setting 1 for an aftermarket exhaust - surely they are both using the same stock Honda O2 sensor?
Anyway - to the outcomes:
For me the standard setting recommended in the instructions did nothing noticeable
Increasing the fuel ratio by one graduation didn't help, increasing it by two graduations made the negine sound flat and worsened the bogging effect on opening the throttle. None of the 3 positions seemed to help with the primary aim which was smoothing out slow revs hesitations.
HOWEVER - using the setting trimmer in the position supposedly for an aftermarket exhaust, seems to have made the midrange very creamy smooth. Almost as good as the new 2018 engines. This effect is only (I think) between 2000 and 4000 rpm. And I never thought that was a problem revrange, but the imroved smoothness is very nice. The other effects may be there but either they come and go like decreased engine braking, and better take up when you open the throttle (ie less lugging in a high gear which makes D-mode more usable), or they are entirely subjective and it's me imagining them.

I can't even say that my fuel consumption is worse - I have monitored it over 3 fill-ups and it MAY be 4 to 5% worse, but then yesterday it seemed to be at least as good as before fitting the device (55mpg UK)

I finally came to the conclusion that the RBE may indeed be doing its stuff below 2000rpm (the purpose for buying it) but any effects are being masked by poor DCT gear changes at low revs. On the NC bikes we all noticed that a DCT reset would radically improve this problem, but I tried it once on the AT and didn't notice any difference. Anyway I tried to do it again yesterday and couldn't - I suspect it's something to do with having the RBE fitted as the DCT reset has to be done with a hot engine and it might be monitoring the o2 sensor.
Mike
 

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Thanks for posting this.

In summary, this thing doesn't do much for you?

I'd like to find something that makes the bike accelerate harder 0-100.

Guessing this isn't it.
 

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The other effects may be there but either they come and go like decreased engine braking, and better take up when you open the throttle (ie less lugging in a high gear which makes D-mode more usable), or they are entirely subjective and it's me imagining them.

[...]I finally came to the conclusion that the RBE may indeed be doing its stuff below 2000rpm (the purpose for buying it) but any effects are being masked by poor DCT gear changes at low revs.
I put mine on yesterday (stock exhaust) and because of your post I did a "blinded" test with the help of my son. Before the test, I rode my AT in 2nd gear (manual mode) around my neighborhood at 15-23 mph including around roundabouts at about 15 mph. The Setting trimmer was on 2 and the Fuel Ratio was either "0" or "+1". On Fuel Ratio "0" (RBE doing nothing?), I thought there was more engine braking and lugging when coming to a stop and I thought it lugged more going ~15 mph at a steady pace around the roundabout. On Fuel Ratio "+1", I thought those problems were mostly gone. (Every time I checked, the unit was blinking after about a minute into the test ride when I started trying to observe the effects. But I didn't check every time.)

Then I had my son set the Fuel Ratio to either 0 or +1 when I wasn't looking and I rode it to see which setting I thought it was on. The results:

1) Actual Setting: 1, My Guess: 0
2) Actual Setting: 0, My Guess: 1
3) Actual Setting: 0, My Guess: 0
4) Actual Setting: 1, My Guess: 1

I didn't do any better than random! I was really surprised by this because I thought I could feel a real difference each time. But I think I felt lugging or no lugging at the first stop and then confirmed my bias during the rest of the test ride.

I'll play around with the Setting trimmer today and see if I can notice a difference with that on 1 instead of 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I put mine on yesterday (stock exhaust) and because of your post I did a "blinded" test with the help of my son. Before the test, I rode my AT in 2nd gear (manual mode) around my neighborhood at 15-23 mph including around roundabouts at about 15 mph. The Setting trimmer was on 2 and the Fuel Ratio was either "0" or "+1". On Fuel Ratio "0" (RBE doing nothing?), I thought there was more engine braking and lugging when coming to a stop and I thought it lugged more going ~15 mph at a steady pace around the roundabout. On Fuel Ratio "+1", I thought those problems were mostly gone. (Every time I checked, the unit was blinking after about a minute into the test ride when I started trying to observe the effects. But I didn't check every time.)

Then I had my son set the Fuel Ratio to either 0 or +1 when I wasn't looking and I rode it to see which setting I thought it was on. The results:

1) Actual Setting: 1, My Guess: 0
2) Actual Setting: 0, My Guess: 1
3) Actual Setting: 0, My Guess: 0
4) Actual Setting: 1, My Guess: 1

I didn't do any better than random! I was really surprised by this because I thought I could feel a real difference each time. But I think I felt lugging or no lugging at the first stop and then confirmed my bias during the rest of the test ride.

I'll play around with the Setting trimmer today and see if I can notice a difference with that on 1 instead of 2.
Love it - that's introducing a bit of objectivity into it - Might try that myself if i can find a helper.
Just for info. I have received quite a long email from the importer, and we cannot assume that we can switch off the RBE by turning the second trimmer to 0. That's because it's only a fine tuner and most of the work is already done by the 'setting' trimmer. In other words a fair bit of enrichment is already there when you put that setting trimmer on position 2.
I put my setting trimmer back to the recommended position (2) for a while the other day - at first I didn;t notice any difference but after about half an hour realised that I thought it was a bit bleh. Turned the setting dial to setting 1 and after a further 30 minutes I was still enjoying the feel of the engine. That's about the limit so far of my objective experiments. Maybe I will take it to a dyno shop and they can check what fuel ratio I am getting with these different positions.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have decided I will definitely find a dyno shop to measure any change in fuel air ratio at the different settings but in the meantime I did some more adjusting on the fly on a ride today.
I am 51% certain that there is some improvement between 2000 and 4000 rpm when I have the setting trim on 1 and the fine tuner on 1 as well. Any other settings felt lumpy or grobbly - definitely not as smooth.
Nothing I did seemed to make any difference below 2000rpm
Mike
 

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I was really wanting this, got one from RR, after DimSport confirm it’s approved for for the 2018 Throttle by wire models, only to then find that DimSport hadn’t actually confirmed its fitment, as the 2018 bikes have a different connector plugs!

Now with your testing, it doesn’t seem to be very reliable, so I’m not so sure I want it now. Seriously thinking about a Hilltop remap instead.
 

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I have decided I will definitely find a dyno shop to measure any change in fuel air ratio at the different settings but in the meantime I did some more adjusting on the fly on a ride today.
I am 51% certain that there is some improvement between 2000 and 4000 rpm when I have the setting trim on 1 and the fine tuner on 1 as well. Any other settings felt lumpy or grobbly - definitely not as smooth.
Nothing I did seemed to make any difference below 2000rpm
Mike
Great! Please let us know what you find. I'm guessing the device is changing the air/fuel ratio but it's such a small difference that it's hard to notice the difference, at least for me.

I did a second blind test but in this case I either ran the stock O2 sensor (extension cord from DimSport plugged into itself) or I ran the Rapid Bike Easy according to the directions (Setting Trimmer on 2 and Fuel Ratio Trimmer on +1). My son selected a configuration at random, started the bike, let it run for a minute, and confirmed that the light was blinking when the Rapid Bike Easy was connected.

The Results:
1) Actual: stock, my guess: RBE (x)
2) Actual: RBE, my guess: RBE ✓
3) Actual: stock, my guess: stock ✓
4) Actual: RBE, my guess: RBE ✓
5) Actual: stock, my guess: stock ✓

4 out of 5 correct! I was driving in 2nd gear in manual at 2000-3000 rpm at 15-23 mph looking for a difference in lugging/sluggishness in engine breaking and slow turning around a roundabout. Honestly, I wasn't confident about any of my guesses and in all the test rides, sometimes it felt like it was on and other times off.

But I did guess correctly 80% of the time. My conclusion is that either I got lucky or that my subconscious is detecting subtle differences that I'm not aware of.

Either way, the difference with the stock exhaust is too subtle for me to reliably detect with confidence.

I've got the device on for my daily commutes this week to see if I can notice any differences during my normal riding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Great! Please let us know what you find. I'm guessing the device is changing the air/fuel ratio but it's such a small difference that it's hard to notice the difference, at least for me.

I did a second blind test but in this case I either ran the stock O2 sensor (extension cord from DimSport plugged into itself) or I ran the Rapid Bike Easy according to the directions (Setting Trimmer on 2 and Fuel Ratio Trimmer on +1). My son selected a configuration at random, started the bike, let it run for a minute, and confirmed that the light was blinking when the Rapid Bike Easy was connected.

The Results:
1) Actual: stock, my guess: RBE (x)
2) Actual: RBE, my guess: RBE ✓
3) Actual: stock, my guess: stock ✓
4) Actual: RBE, my guess: RBE ✓
5) Actual: stock, my guess: stock ✓

4 out of 5 correct! I was driving in 2nd gear in manual at 2000-3000 rpm at 15-23 mph looking for a difference in lugging/sluggishness in engine breaking and slow turning around a roundabout. Honestly, I wasn't confident about any of my guesses and in all the test rides, sometimes it felt like it was on and other times off.

But I did guess correctly 80% of the time. My conclusion is that either I got lucky or that my subconscious is detecting subtle differences that I'm not aware of.

Either way, the difference with the stock exhaust is too subtle for me to reliably detect with confidence.

I've got the device on for my daily commutes this week to see if I can notice any differences during my normal riding.
They are great experiments BTR, I never thought of plugging the extension lead into itself (presumed I'd have to faff about taking the brake pedal off).
I too find myself thinking during a ride that sometimes the RBE is working and sometimes it's not (hence the idea of taping it to the tank - but the light flashes all the time now even when I feel the unit might not be doing its thing). Engine braking is one of those aspects that sometimes the RBE seems to be reducing it and sometimes even increasing it
Why don't you try the different setting that the UK importer suggested to me (trimmer 1 the setting trimmer on 1 and the other trimmer also on 1 - this is supposed to be for an aftermarket exhaust but the guy said it was OK - and subjectively it feels very nice between 2000 and 4000 rpm
Mike
 

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Why don't you try the different setting that the UK importer suggested to me (trimmer 1 the setting trimmer on 1 and the other trimmer also on 1 - this is supposed to be for an aftermarket exhaust but the guy said it was OK - and subjectively it feels very nice between 2000 and 4000 rpm
Mike
I did one test run with those settings and couldn't feel a noticeable difference. But maybe I'll do another blinded test with those settings this weekend.

Having now done a few commutes with the Rapid Bike Easy under my normal driving conditions, I can't notice any significant difference. At least it's not any worse! :smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It would also be interesting if you can do the DCT reset (if you have a dct!) Before fitting the RBE I was able to do it once but now can't get it to initiate.
The sequence is listed in another thread, but I cannot get past first base which is to get the engine management light to come on by holding the D-button down while turning the ignition on. You could try just this bit. If you do get the engine light to come on and dont want to go any further, simply switching off, tells the system you don't want to proceed with the DCT reset.
Mike
 

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It would also be interesting if you can do the DCT reset (if you have a dct!) Before fitting the RBE I was able to do it once but now can't get it to initiate.
The sequence is listed in another thread, but I cannot get past first base which is to get the engine management light to come on by holding the D-button down while turning the ignition on. You could try just this bit. If you do get the engine light to come on and dont want to go any further, simply switching off, tells the system you don't want to proceed with the DCT reset.
Mike
I was able to do the DCT reset with and without the RBE connected. However, on mine, the yellow MIL engine light doesn't do anything different if I hold down the D-button or not.

I followed this procedure from my service manual (page 13-80):
1) Warm up engine, put in N, turn off
2) Hold down D and switch key to ON (keep D pressed until MIL light goes off)
3) Press the sequence D-D-N-D-N ("-" on gear display then blinked at 2 sec intervals and D & S lights turned on)
4) Start the engine
5) Wait about 10-15 seconds: the "-" turns to an "N" and the D & S lights turn off
6) Stop the engine
7) Restart the engine and make sure you can shift out of Neutral into D or S mode

When I turned the key on without holding the D button and then tried the D-D-N-D-N sequence, nothing happened. I think holding down the D button while starting and leaving it on until the MIL light goes out prepares the bike to accept the sequence.

I ended up doing the reset first with the RBE disconnected (extension cable plugged into itself). Then I did it again with the RBE connected (I ran the bike for about 30 seconds with it connected first). It worked the same way both times.

I'll see if I notice any difference when I ride again tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks - I will have another go. But previously I remember the engine light behaving differently to how it does now. And after I have done the ddndn, zilch it all just sits there.
Mike
 

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Thanks for posting this.

In summary, this thing doesn't do much for you?

I'd like to find something that makes the bike accelerate harder 0-100.

Guessing this isn't it.

This worked wonders for me and transformed the poor, low speed, weak mixture and jerkyness of my 2016 model. It made a big difference to my slow speed riding at a very reasobale cost. It is not sold as or marketed as an across the range power booster.
 

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This worked wonders for me and transformed the poor, low speed, weak mixture and jerkyness of my 2016 model. It made a big difference to my slow speed riding at a very reasobale cost. It is not sold as or marketed as an across the range power booster.
Gotcha. I don't feel the need to change the low speed throttle on mine, just look for more powah!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Thanks BTR - got the dct reset to work but can't try it until sunday.
However, as I was waiting for the oil to warm up with the bike on idle, I realised that the DCT reset is unlikely to solve the issue of the hesitation at low revs, because the idle on my bike is so lumpy. It doesn't backfire or stall like some people have experienced but it is rough as helll and the Rapid Bike Easy has had no effect on this. It's a powerful twin cylinder engine producing a lot of grunt low down, so surely if the idle is lumpy that is going to be felt at trickling round town speeds as a jerky lumpiness. The importer seemed to think that the RBE was designed to make the low revs very smooth, but the only effect I can get with mine seems to be above 2000rpm.
Mike
 

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It's a powerful twin cylinder engine producing a lot of grunt low down, so surely if the idle is lumpy that is going to be felt at trickling round town speeds as a jerky lumpiness. The importer seemed to think that the RBE was designed to make the low revs very smooth, but the only effect I can get with mine seems to be above 2000rpm.
Mike
Mine idles well at around 1400 rpm. Is yours lower? Maybe it needs to be adjusted.

For mine, I was just trying to fix the jerkiness at around 2000 rpm when going slow in a parking lot. The gym I go to has a long drive through a parking lot with speed bumps and it's jerky if the revs get too low. Now I just put it in manual for this part of my ride and put it in 1st if I'm below 15 mph and 2nd for less than 25 mph. It's working well to keep the revs up a bit higher.

Overall I love the bike and the DCT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Mine idles well at around 1400 rpm. Is yours lower? Maybe it needs to be adjusted.

For mine, I was just trying to fix the jerkiness at around 2000 rpm when going slow in a parking lot. The gym I go to has a long drive through a parking lot with speed bumps and it's jerky if the revs get too low. Now I just put it in manual for this part of my ride and put it in 1st if I'm below 15 mph and 2nd for less than 25 mph. It's working well to keep the revs up a bit higher.

Overall I love the bike and the DCT.
Yeah me too - I've done 17k miles in a year so I must like it. (despite 5 warranty claims :|). To be honest I'm just fiddling with minor improvements having decided I wasn't going to upgrade to the 2018 model this year.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Mine idles well at around 1400 rpm. Is yours lower? Maybe it needs to be adjusted.

For mine, I was just trying to fix the jerkiness at around 2000 rpm when going slow in a parking lot. The gym I go to has a long drive through a parking lot with speed bumps and it's jerky if the revs get too low. Now I just put it in manual for this part of my ride and put it in 1st if I'm below 15 mph and 2nd for less than 25 mph. It's working well to keep the revs up a bit higher.

Overall I love the bike and the DCT.
Been thinking about this a bit more. Yes mine idles at 1400 rpm but it's a very rough idle. At 2000rpm mine is very smooth (maybe because of the RBE), but only if I am driving the bike forwards at 2000rpm, not if the throttle is closed at 2000rpm. My guess is that the engine is being driven by the drive chain etc at 2000rpm whilst the fuelling is really at the minimum possible - ie it would be at 1400 if it were at a standstill. And I think what's happening is that I am getting these irregular squirts of fuel that causes the small hesitations and surges. The DCT reset has made no difference by the way.
I had the exact same thing happening on my 2012 Triumph Rocket and only when a former Triumph engineer came to my home and properly balanced the throttle bodies did I get a cure. Ever since then my Rocket has been so creamy smooth to ride slowly it's a revelation.
So my question is - do the throttle bodies on the CRF1000L get out of sync or is there some automated system that keeps them balanced. (Someone's gonna tell me now there's only one of them :) )
What does the workshop service manual say?
Mike
 

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So my question is - do the throttle bodies on the CRF1000L get out of sync or is there some automated system that keeps them balanced. (Someone's gonna tell me now there's only one of them :) )
What does the workshop service manual say?
Mike
I couldn't find anything in my service manual about synchronizing the throttle bodies. I had to sync them on my V-Strom 1000 about every 10k miles to keep it running well.

My AT runs well everywhere except when I'm coasting with little or no throttle and I'm less than 25 mph. That's basically where I would normally pull in the clutch and just coast in neutral. It's too bad the DCT doesn't have a way to switch to neutral while moving.
 
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