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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
I recently bought a new 2018 AT manual version with the Eliiy Power HY110 lithium ion battery as standard.
Lithium batteries are not supposed to be jump started, so I see no sense in having one on an adventure bike. I want to replace the standard lithium battery with an AGM.
Is there any good reason I should not do so, other than warranty nonsense, or any potential risks I should be aware of?
Also, has anyone done this and does anyone know of a suitable AGM replacement?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Hi,
I recently bought a new 2018 AT manual version with the Eliiy Power HY110 lithium ion battery as standard.
Lithium batteries are not supposed to be jump started, so I see no sense in having one on an adventure bike. I want to replace the standard lithium battery with an AGM.
Is there any good reason I should not do so, other than warranty nonsense, or any potential risks I should be aware of?
Also, has anyone done this and does anyone know of a suitable AGM replacement?

Thanks in advance.
I have one on my ATAS,never had to jump it ever, not had to charge it either ,even when laid up for several weeks, If you ever had to jump it I cant see why this would trash the battery using one of those small power packs would be fine Im sure, save your money and buy a small portable jump starter but I doubt you would have to use It...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Harleywilma.
I understand they are quite reliable and won't lose charge when not in use, even for extended periods.
I'm trying to prevent the situation where say, uuuhhh, I leave the GPS or I don't turn the ignition off properly, (don't ask me how I know these things) and I'm in the middle of nowhere, in deep sand (can't bump start).
Even if I'm at home and the battery dies; it seems to be generally accepted that lithium batteries should not be jump started. I read somewhere that it could take days before a jump started lithium battery starts acting up, overheating, and potentially starting a fire. Something about copper plates fusing and shorting out. With the history of lithium batteries igniting, it's not a risk I want to take.
Plus, I would rather spend $100 - $200 on a good non-lithium battery than the $500+ on replacing the standard lithium one. That price is insane.
I am mostly looking for the peace of mind that I can safely jump start my battery without concern about losing the bike to fire, however small that risk may be.
 

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There are good reasons Honda switched to the lithium batteries - reliability, longevity, much lower weight, zero maintenance, can be mounted any direction, no leaks...

I've had them in two bikes one for five years - no issues for about 50,000 kilometres. Started even in negative temperatures, battery tender for long storage, bike actually started quicker and easier with lithium batteries.

And I don't think they are $500 anywhere - more likely around $200-250. A decent Yuasa AGM battery is about 120-150 and in my experience lasted about 3-5 years.

More positives than negatives for lithium.

https://batterychargersinfo.com/agm-vs-lithium-motorcycle-battery/
 
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While true you can not just “dump” raw amperage into a Li-ion there are ways around it and even devices that you can hook up ‘in line” to keep your battery from fully discharging, killing the power to the whole bike when certain voltage and or amperage levels are reached, so a quick hook up to a low amperage “jump battery” will be safe quick recovery of the battery..
 

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The lithium battery is an upgrade from the AGM. You can jump start a Lithium Ion battery - but it is more important than a regular battery that you do not jump it from a car. Motorcycle electrical systems are not built to handle the current, and you will damage many different components. Jumping from another motorcycle or other small battery is fine - but if you jump a lithium battery from a car battery it can catch fire or explode.

If you are in the middle of nowhere, in deep sand, have a dead battery, and the only vehicle is a truck - then turn the truck off, turn it's lights on, then connect to the bike and start the bike. You can go a step further and disconnect before trying to start it. It also helps to shout "There she blows!" because like pets and kids - motorcycles like to show us up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I buy OEM parts whenever possible, but not batteries and not tires. Manufacturers buy those, why should I pay a middleman?
There's no way I'm paying $500 for a battery either. There are after market products that are just fine in many cases, lithium batteries being one of them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've done a lot of 'internet research' on lithium ion batteries. The technology is developing fast. The batteries manufactured today are not the same as those of even a couple of years ago. Most newer lithium batteries have a BMU/BMS (battery management unit/system).
There is a circuit board inside the battery that manages the power supply, preventing over-boosting and actually shutting off the battery before the charge drops too much, thus rendering the battery useless. From what I can gather, the BMU protects the battery from damage when jump starting. I would still take precautionary measures like not jump from a car battery. I believe it is safe however to use a lithium booster pack. I'm just not sure yet whether I need a booster pack specifically designed for lithium batteries (like a charger), or if any booster pack would be safe.
 

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Am I on a different version of the Internet? ;)

Antigravity Battery - Revzilla ($199 USD)

Shorai Battery - Revzilla ($179) - I've had two of these brand in other bikes. Really good.

Both of which are cheaper than Yuasa lead-acid batteries and the ludicrously priced Honda battery.
I don't see why anyone would buy the OEM.. especially now. Unless of course the OEM in the bike is faulty and you can somehow persuade Honda to replace it under warranty, or get one heavily discounted as an act of 'goodwill'.. The OEM should easily last 8-10 years and already we have alternatives that are considerably cheaper and this state of affairs will only improve in the coming years. In fact, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if we rapidly reach a point where Lithiums (for larger capacity bikes) are cheaper than Lead acids and where aspects that are not standard now, like the ability to jump start, become completely normal.
 

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I made my own jumper cables out of 18 gauge lamp cord so that the resistance would prevent excessive current from flowing into the battery. Plus I have a lightweight, compact set of cables with me, with appropriate sized clips that fit bikes on both ends.

The Shorai website says a fully charged lithium battery is 14.4V, while completely discharged is 12.86 V. A fully charged lead acid car battery is 14.1V. So worst case, 10A could flow into the battery, assuming the car is not running which should be perfectly safe. The current will continue to drop as the Lithium battery charges. You might have to wait for a bit to get some charge into your Lithium battery before you can start the bike, I haven't experimented with this because of course as soon as you prepare for a problem it never happens ;-)

Math:
10 foot cable = 20 feet 18 gauge copper wire = 0.128 Ohms of resistance. Voltage = 14.1 - 12.86 = 1.24V maximum. Current = V/R = 1.24 / 0.128 = 9.7A


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I made my own jumper cables out of 18 gauge lamp cord so that the resistance would prevent excessive current from flowing into the battery. Plus I have a lightweight, compact set of cables with me, with appropriate sized clips that fit bikes on both ends.

The Shorai website says a fully charged lithium battery is 14.4V, while completely discharged is 12.86 V. A fully charged lead acid car battery is 14.1V. So worst case, 10A could flow into the battery, assuming the car is not running which should be perfectly safe. The current will continue to drop as the Lithium battery charges. You might have to wait for a bit to get some charge into your Lithium battery before you can start the bike, I haven't experimented with this because of course as soon as you prepare for a problem it never happens ;-)

Math:
10 foot cable = 20 feet 18 gauge copper wire = 0.128 Ohms of resistance. Voltage = 14.1 - 12.86 = 1.24V maximum. Current = V/R = 1.24 / 0.128 = 9.7A


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
So quick question, doesn't the amount of electricity flow through a wire depend on the draw, or load? so if the dead (low) lithium battery will only pull "X" amount at a time according to available voltage, would it not draw the same through a "00" wire as an "18"? Your theory of the wire size limiting current flow would mean that jumping a car battery through #18 jumpers would not burn the wires in two, or that using a # 18 to dead short a car battery would not light up that wire? Of course if you put a small load on that wire, such as an instrument panel light bulb, the wire would survive indefinatley.
 

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Please define the jumpstart procedure. Attempting to recharge the low battery some before trying to turn the starter motor, or attempting to turn the starter motor via cables connected to a low battery? 18 gauge wires will be fine to siphon charge into a low battery, but will nearly vaporize under the load of a starter motor. At the very least they'll melt the insulation.
The cheap commercial jumper cables they sell are sometimes as small as 6-gauge, and are actually only good to bring charge up on a car battery so it will turn the starter. You can't get enough current through them to run the starter if the car battery is completely flat.
 

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on this batteries (cbr 1000 sp1/sp2 , AT/ATAS 18-19) you cannot jump start , as there is an onboard fuse , try at your own risk
 

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Hi I’m having drama with battery going flat after 8 days has anyone else experienced this a new battery from Honda 428 pound
 

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Hi I’m having drama with battery going flat after 8 days has anyone else experienced this a new battery from Honda 428 pound
Read the rest of the thread, several links to cheaper Lith ION batteries have been posted.
 
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