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Discussion Starter #21
FYI I sent an email to the dealership and the service manager called me almost immediately saying they were going to send a truck to come pick up my bike from my house and fix it immediately. He confirmed that tech "thought they were luggage rack bolts" and they were in fact the caliper bolts that were not installed.

Thanks again for everyone's help, I would still be riding it if it wasn't for ghostrider.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Well and that is now my question. Should I pursue some kind of action against the dealership? I don't consider myself a very vindictive person but I honestly see it both ways.

On the one hand: nothing bad happened, once they were aware of the issue they immediately sent someone over to pick up the bike and rectify it and the service manager was very apologetic. At the end of the day people make mistakes and I get that.

On the other hand: It would not have been resolved if I had not looked into it myself. If something had happened I could be injured/paralyzed/even dead (or worse the bike could have been seriously damaged, lol jk) and I mean on top of it all when you buy a motorcycle that msrps for USD$15k you kind of expect to not have to deal with these kind of issues.
 

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I have an 18 ATAS
The caliper bolts are plated (shiney) and flanged.
What do the transport bolts look like. Are they also flanged - anyone got a picture.
I presume mine are the right ones as they look like the pic in the first post
 

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Seriously.

I mean it makes sense for Honda to ship it with low-grade bolts if they are going to throw them away the moment they pop on the front wheel. But you would think that the dealership would heavily emphasize the importance of not reusing the bolts used during shipping. I mean that is a huuuge liability issue if there is an accident and it comes up that they did that.

Do you have access to the full assembly instructions? I am just curious how the bike is shipped and what else is assembled by the dealership. Considering this happened I kind of want to go over all the other connections/nuts/bolts with a torque wrench just to be sure.
Rusty I believe the only assembly manual they have now is a video available through proprietary videos from Honda at the dealer level. I do have pictures of my bike before it was removed from the crate and during assembly. Glad you caught the bolts before catastrophe. When I saw your picture I immediately knew what they were but ghost advised you before I could. For the most part the bike is completely assembled, except for the front wheel, windscreen, mirrors, battery,... etc. The front wheel installation requires the removal of the calipers and Honda most likely felt that the threadlock would be compromised by removing the bolts and then reinstalling. As was said by Ghost, many dealers use the least experienced people to assemble the bikes and they would most likely not install the bolts with new threadlock. So Honda attempted to correct the issue but most likely caused a bigger one. Hope the pictures help.

Ride Safe!!
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I have an 18 ATAS
The caliper bolts are plated (shiney) and flanged.
What do the transport bolts look like. Are they also flanged - anyone got a picture.
I presume mine are the right ones as they look like the pic in the first post
Hey, the transport bolts are flanged and do look roughly the same as the actual caliper bolts, unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture of the bolts before the dealer took the bike back to fix it and presumably throw away the bolts.

But I do recall that the transport bolts had this weird symbol on the head of the bolt. It was basically a circle with a line over it I have attached a rough sketch of it. I remember that because after Ghostrider pointed out what it was I was wondering what that symbol meant and was trying to research it, but I stopped looking before I found an answer. The proper bolts dont have that symbol or any symbol on the head.

So if your caliper bolts DONT have that symbol on the head of the bolt, they ARE the proper bolts and not the transport bolts.

I hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Rusty I believe the only assembly manual they have now is a video available through proprietary videos from Honda at the dealer level. I do have pictures of my bike before it was removed from the crate and during assembly. Glad you caught the bolts before catastrophe. When I saw your picture I immediately knew what they were but ghost advised you before I could. For the most part the bike is completely assembled, except for the front wheel, windscreen, mirrors, battery,... etc. The front wheel installation requires the removal of the calipers and Honda most likely felt that the threadlock would be compromised by removing the bolts and then reinstalling. As was said by Ghost, many dealers use the least experienced people to assemble the bikes and they would most likely not install the bolts with new threadlock. So Honda attempted to correct the issue but most likely caused a bigger one. Hope the pictures help.

Ride Safe!!
Thanks for the clarification and the photos, they really do help. It sounds like the main thing that could lead to a potential safety issue is, in fact, those caliper bolts. Everything else like mirrors and the windscreen seem like things that if they come loose it probably won't end in an accident. I will probably still end up giving everything a once over.

Thanks again for the info.
 

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Thanks rusty for details on bolt heads. Just checked mine and no markings so that's good. The head of the bolts is also hollow, sort of a bowl in the hex which is probably another way of identifying the correct ones
 

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Not all transport caliper screws are marked like that by the way ;)
 

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You would think that Honda could develop transit bolts that are clearly not the proper bolts. Perhaps attach a bright tag indicating what they are
 

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I was a licenced tech at a Honda dealership before I retired. Honda provides detailed assembly instructions for every bike they ship so there's no excuse for using the wrong bolts. Each bike arrives with the instructions and a bag of fasteners to replace the shipping bolts. The instructions also include details on routing cables and wiring.

That said, I also worked at a Harley dealership for the the same length of time. During my time there I was sent away at least once and sometimes twice a year for training especially on new models. During my time with Honda I received no training at all. I'd like to hear from other Honda techs if this was their experience.
 

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Instruction are not with new bikes , you have to look for them online .
For europe , far east and australia an Honda tech have to go (aswel) twice year for training .(or it´s a master tech who teach)
 

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Well, aint dat sumpthin? I got the same set of 4 bolts handed to me from the dealer with my 2017 DCT a few months ago.

I assumed that they were an "extra" set of caliper bolts because the manual says do not reuse them... Now I have to go out and inspect. Wat da ....!!!
 

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OK, so you guys enticed me to get up out of a warm and comfy recliner, trudge all the way out to the garage, and inspect my caliper bolts. Sheesh, it must be something like 65 deg F in that cold cold Arizona garage....

Here are pics of what is in the caliper ( I am assuming these are the wrong bolts, but the marking looks sort of like a "10", which might actually be a reasonably high tensile strength bolt.

The ones from the bag have no markings, and an indentation in the head, with the red thread locking compound on them.

Generally, I was taught that the more marks on a bolt head, the better/stronger spec. it is. However, the bolt with the indent and no marks looks like a higher quality bolt (sharper corners, smoother finish.)

Any further thoughts? Guess I will call the dealer and see what sort of story they come up with. I have kind of low expectations on that one, though.

What is the probablility that the bolts in the bag ARE the bolts from the crate, and the ones installed are actually correct? The dried thread locker makes me think they were installed.


Here are the pics.

Way it came from dealer:

53316


Bolt from bag with manual:

53317


Head of bolt from bag:

53318
 

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One additional piece of "evidence" comes from taking a look at the German tech pouring the new bolts out on his bench in the assembly video that DCTFAN posted above.

His set of bolts, fresh from the box, look just like the ones that came in the bag with my bike. I guess that would make one think that these are the bolts that should be installed.

See what you fine people think. I am not quite as worried about running with the bolts that are currently installed, at least until I learn a little more, but I doubt most Honda dealers will have a clue about this.

53321
 

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Beowulf, the bolts in your bag are the ones that came installed on my 2018 ATAS. If you notice, the heads match the heads of the axle retaining bolts.
 
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