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What “basic” selection do you use?


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I would have loved to buy the DCT version, at the end of day, the relative simplicity of the old manual gearbox won me over. A lot of components need to work as intended for DCT to function. Add the high number of pages covering DCT in the AT shop manual compare to manual gearbox and the posts on the forum about undocumented features of the DCT. As I only ride for pleasure and as I say, I am happy to trade the DCT benefits, to keep things simple. Having said this, I accept the DCT is an incredible tool.

With that logic we should kill the starter motor, fuel injection, abs, radiators etc.....

One should not be afraid to move with the cheese, just don't do so blindly.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
D is just to useless for me. I run my 2018 in S3 for the snappy throttle I like. Coming to the AT from a super sport touring bike, it has taken a bit to get used to but I love it.
Yea it seems for the poll results so far it’s not used much - mine will short shift through the gears - one would think that putting the bike in “D” & “urban” mode would keep that from happening but in actuality all the different “modes” have the exact shifting timing the only thing that changes between say D-Touring & D-Urban is the P-EB-T levels they are just presets for them... now of corse sport mode changes the **** “timing” but even there the Urban,Tour, etc are still just presets for the power engine braking & torque...
 

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With that logic we should kill the starter motor, fuel injection, abs, radiators etc.....

One should not be afraid to move with the cheese, just don't do so blindly.
I don't agree, the items you mention are different in that they are essential. As a retired truck engineer, I spent far too much time dealing with automated manual transmission issues. Most of these admittedly relating to the operation of the clutch. I also know many engineers who work in the vehicle industry customer support roles who have all bought manual transmission vehicles when retiring. I accept their place in the world and the benefits they bring. The DCT for me, as only a leisure rider, was unnecessary complexity, I also wanted to avoid some of the issues raised by off road riders.

I don't think the first mouse gets the cheese, the second mouse usually gets it.

I wish you many trouble free miles on your DCT!
 

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The second mouse may get the cheese, but the ones still hanging out around the den will never get to taste it.

We have seen many innovations come along with everybody clamoring onto the old tried and true. I don't recall it being long ago that people were worried about radiators on an off road bike, just another failure point. While that may be the case it is a failure point that allows 30 HP where 15 was the max on the air cooled variety.

I could go on and on. While some of them do bust, most are making a positive impact on the machines we ride today.

BTW the DCT is not an automatic transmission!
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Torque Request does have a point, the DCT are technically auto shifting manual transmissions, there’s a servo attached to the shifter and to the two servos to two clutches . Same transmission in the manual but it’s got the foot lever and one clutch with a cable - Basically that is
 

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Ok Ima throw my 2c in here - offroad I can't fault the AT DCT considering its size ( I use gravel mode, rear ABS off, traction control off and manual shifting). On road while hauling a$$, I use manual and the revs. Great stuff. Trouble is, most of my commute involves lane splitting and traffic navigation. I'm not gonna mix my words here - its a pig. It has me yearning for a clutch lever - I just want to be able to modulate the power to the rear wheel with the throttle AND clutch. Trouble is, my AT is very lumpy on low rpm (I even have stalling issues when motor is not up to temp - no fun when you've just split to the front of a thousand angry cagers waiting at a traffic light!). It spoils what is a fun bike. Another quirk I hate (and off topic unfortunately) is when the I crest a rise and the steering goes light. The bars slap like a mofo. I already have tapered steering bearings and I dont want to fit a damper.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Ok Ima throw my 2c in here - offroad I can't fault the AT DCT considering its size ( I use gravel mode, rear ABS off, traction control off and manual shifting). On road while hauling a$$, I use manual and the revs. Great stuff. Trouble is, most of my commute involves lane splitting and traffic navigation. I'm not gonna mix my words here - its a pig. It has me yearning for a clutch lever - I just want to be able to modulate the power to the rear wheel with the throttle AND clutch. Trouble is, my AT is very lumpy on low rpm (I even have stalling issues when motor is not up to temp - no fun when you've just split to the front of a thousand angry cagers waiting at a traffic light!). It spoils what is a fun bike. Another quirk I hate (and off topic unfortunately) is when the I crest a rise and the steering goes light. The bars slap like a mofo. I already have tapered steering bearings and I dont want to fit a damper.
100% with you... you just have no finesse - I’d go as far and say the whole set up would be perfect IF you had a clutch lever and you could manually override the clutch that is engaged a “clutch by wire’ option..
I haven’t noticed any bar slap at zero G but i do get some when I transition from positive torque to negative and it’s not really noticeable just happened upon it when I let go of the bars to fix my gloves...
 

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Ive ridden bikes for past 26 years on and offroad, as soon as i tested the AT DCT i fell in love! So much so i swapped my 3 month old Tiger 1200 in for a new one. Its a great feeling being on the DCT slow speed is great, standing, sporty of normal riding i cant pick fault.
 

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Maybe it's not a question of fault, more one of personal preference for the type of person we are and the riding we do. My decision to stay with manual has deprived me of all the DCT benefits and all possible future DCT maintenance challenges when the bike gets older that can accompany higher complexity (as explained in the AT DCT shop manual). I am an old boy and want a simple as possible life, were I younger I would have DCT no question.


Will be interesting to see what the new CRF850 and CRF1100 transmission options are!
 

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At my heart I love sport bikes and MX bikes. So I keep wishing my ATAS DCT had about another 20-30 hp. But what I do love is how quick the bike is off the line. I spent a lot of time road racing, drag racing, MX, hare scrambles, cross country, etc. I am pretty good at cutting a light and launching a normal clutched bike off the line.

So just for grins I put my son on my ATAS. I put it in S3, G mode, and had the power at max, traction control engaged but at minimum, and lined up against him at a light. I was on my Ducati xDiavel S 1260 which probably has 90% more HP than the AT and probably weighs 40 pounds less.

The light went green and he just took off like a shot. While I launched pretty hard, I wasn't at max of what I or the xDiavel as capable of and he beat me through the intersection. Lined up again and the next light (thankfully we were in a pretty deserted area, and let her go again. This time we dead even for about the first 20' and then I pulled him by about a bike length to the other side.

So an interesting takeaway from all this is someone on a sportbike who wants to run your DCT better launch darn near perfectly or they are doing to have to chase you down. In the stop light to stop light gran prix the DCT is a blast. It launches like a sport bike on max but with no fuss. You just pin the throttle and away you go. I've done this quite a few times against other bikes at a light but I didn't really get a chance to quantify so to speak. The xDiavel is one of the quickest Ducatis 0-60. No slouch at higher speeds but it will trail the Paginale up top. It isn't exactly quiet when I launch for best times. The AT is so quiet you hardly know it is running by comparison.
 

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The DCT transmission is not new - it has been out since 2009 on several different models of honda motorcycles. That is 10 years, and it has proven to be bulletproof. I have a DCT transmission on my '18 ATAS and I think that it is one of its best features.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Maybe it's not a question of fault, more one of personal preference for the type of person we are and the riding we do. My decision to stay with manual has deprived me of all the DCT benefits and all possible future DCT maintenance challenges when the bike gets older that can accompany higher complexity (as explained in the AT DCT shop manual). I am an old boy and want a simple as possible life, were I younger I would have DCT no question.


Will be interesting to see what the new CRF850 and CRF1100 transmission options are!
I’m not sure I would say ‘faults” as much as an annoyance, and that annoyance with DCT shifting, when you get down to it is actually a firmware issue. Yea a bit more complexity in the clutch system compared to the manual. But not as complex as a automotive transmission. And too, most of us are not gonna put over 100,000 miles on these. I’m pretty sure I’ll be onto the next new shiny toy well before the time things “go south”... As far as “auto” compared to “manual” i’d say we’d have kinda the same issues/arguments of control off road if we were talking 4X4’s.
Maintenance and longevity - I guess time will tell...
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Well I would add that if you look at the number of issues on this forum compared to the number of bikes out there and that is still a fairly new model I think Honda did a great job and built a really solid bike. Especially if you consider the complexity...
 

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Discussion Starter #35
At my heart I love sport bikes and MX bikes. So I keep wishing my ATAS DCT had about another 20-30 hp. But what I do love is how quick the bike is off the line. I spent a lot of time road racing, drag racing, MX, hare scrambles, cross country, etc. I am pretty good at cutting a light and launching a normal clutched bike off the line.

So just for grins I put my son on my ATAS. I put it in S3, G mode, and had the power at max, traction control engaged but at minimum, and lined up against him at a light. I was on my Ducati xDiavel S 1260 which probably has 90% more HP than the AT and probably weighs 40 pounds less.

The light went green and he just took off like a shot. While I launched pretty hard, I wasn't at max of what I or the xDiavel as capable of and he beat me through the intersection. Lined up again and the next light (thankfully we were in a pretty deserted area, and let her go again. This time we dead even for about the first 20' and then I pulled him by about a bike length to the other side.

So an interesting takeaway from all this is someone on a sportbike who wants to run your DCT better launch darn near perfectly or they are doing to have to chase you down. In the stop light to stop light gran prix the DCT is a blast. It launches like a sport bike on max but with no fuss. You just pin the throttle and away you go. I've done this quite a few times against other bikes at a light but I didn't really get a chance to quantify so to speak. The xDiavel is one of the quickest Ducatis 0-60. No slouch at higher speeds but it will trail the Paginale up top. It isn't exactly quiet when I launch for best times. The AT is so quiet you hardly know it is running by comparison.
Yea I agree the DCT is quicker then you’d expect and add the fact that the DCT for all intentional purposes is always in a gear and no matter how quick of a shifter you are, with a manual gear box you will always have a “gap” between gears (that is, IF you use the clutch). Even ridding with buddy’s and not racing each other off the line I still end up ahead of them; they have that serious yo-yo effect..
 

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Discussion Starter #36
The DCT transmission is not new - it has been out since 2009 on several different models of honda motorcycles. That is 10 years, and it has proven to be bulletproof. I have a DCT transmission on my '18 ATAS and I think that it is one of its best features.
Yea that was a selling point for me on the bike, it using off the self products (for the most part).
 

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I’m not sure I would say ‘faults” as much as an annoyance, and that annoyance with DCT shifting, when you get down to it is actually a firmware issue. Yea a bit more complexity in the clutch system compared to the manual. But not as complex as a automotive transmission. And too, most of us are not gonna put over 100,000 miles on these. I’m pretty sure I’ll be onto the next new shiny toy well before the time things “go south”... As far as “auto” compared to “manual” i’d say we’d have kinda the same issues/arguments of control off road if we were talking 4X4’s.
Maintenance and longevity - I guess time will tell...

I'm glad you clarified that - from reading your original reply I thought you were suggesting that I was a ham-fisted noob with zero experience. (Actually 42 years on 2 wheels, on my 25th lap around the planet and I still ride track days/desert/trails/adv/canyons/mx)
I agree with your observations on firmware as no matter how hard I try, I cant get the AT to deliver smoothly at lower rpms. That was my original beef.

As for mileage, I put 20K on my AT last year so I guess its time to sell it :p
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
I'm glad you clarified that - from reading your original reply I thought you were suggesting that I was a ham-fisted noob with zero experience. (Actually 42 years on 2 wheels, on my 25th lap around the planet and I still ride track days/desert/trails/adv/canyons/mx)
I agree with your observations on firmware as no matter how hard I try, I cant get the AT to deliver smoothly at lower rpms. That was my original beef.

As for mileage, I put 20K on my AT last year so I guess its time to sell it :p
Nice to hear, then you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about when I say you can’t get no finesse out of the rear wheel on a DCT, it just all or nothing ( well by noting, I do mean a preset amount that Honda put in that may or may not work for your situation)
Now would I trade my DCT for a manual.. Nope! I love it and for the most part it does VERY well. And after all these years of riding it’s ... Well, not exactly forced, but it more to the point, got me to pay more attention to my throttle use..

Someone did mention about, basically, brake torquing it to get the same effect, while yes you can do it . I prefer my clutch plates over easy, not fried... but that’s just my opinion...
 

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LOL - maybe thats why its the first bike I've ever had to change the rear pads before the front ones.....
 

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I'm glad you clarified that - from reading your original reply I thought you were suggesting that I was a ham-fisted noob with zero experience. (Actually 42 years on 2 wheels, on my 25th lap around the planet and I still ride track days/desert/trails/adv/canyons/mx)
I agree with your observations on firmware as no matter how hard I try, I cant get the AT to deliver smoothly at lower rpms. That was my original beef.

As for mileage, I put 20K on my AT last year so I guess its time to sell it :p
Have you thought about trying the Throttle Tamer? I am about to try one on my wife's '17 as she experiences the same issue with not being able to get smooth operation out of hers at lower rpms. I do find the throttle by wire and gravel mode combo work better on my ATAS than the cable throttle did on my '16.
 
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