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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have recently discovered that I was under the wrong impression when it comes to the torque control setting of my Africa Twin.

Every time I jumped on the bike I set it to only 1 bar thinking that the traction control(torque control) is at it’s least giving youmore power & slippage on the back wheel. To my surprise when I left it on 3bars I found the bike performs a lot better on tar. I use to twist quite a bit to get to 170 kph,now on 3 bars it goes there quite easily & accelerates much better throughthe gears! I have not tested this on grave yet, so I do not know if I would getmore wheel spin on 3 or on 1bar. I just thought I would mention this toeveryone since I have been missing out on the true torque of this bike for awhile. I am yet to switch the torque control off & ride it then on tar..
Now this section below is taken from a review I read & it does seem to coincide with the experience I have now..

"There are four levels of control to choose from on the Honda Selectable Torque Control (HSTC): Level 1, 2 and 3 and off. The degree of electronically-generate control from the system decreases as the levels rise, allowing increasing amounts of rear wheel spin and, with rear ABS off, freedom to fully lock up the back wheel."

Any thoughts or experience on this..?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Yes I agree with you, it should be the other way around, but deffo more torque & acceleration on 3 bars riding tar. Maybe it is different on gravel.. ? Just want to assure you I am not imagining things, I am a electronic engineer by trade.. Would like to see what others discover about this, go try it..


1. Start the bike up set to 1 bar ride it around on tar for quite a while & accelerate to higher speeds over 160kph.
2. Switch off ignition
3. Start the bike, do not touch torque setting leave on 3 bars & then see what you experience..
Let me state, run both modes in different conditions on tar for a while.


Ps. I have a manual bike 2017 model
 

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Try it on wet. You'll find on 3 it kicks in much sooner and reduces power to the rear wheel. One is the least aggressive. I wouldn't recommend using any setting, other than off, on gravel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I shall try it in wet or gravel when I get the chance again.. I switched torque setting off today & seems even better torque & acceleration on dry tar..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Flip side of that coin also could be it kicks in sooner because there is more torque & it spins or slips sooner..?
 

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I have a 2017 DCT. On wet pavement, level 3 kicks in very often, I can't accelerate quickly at a stoplight or it kicks in. I put it down to level Level 1 or even 2 and I don't get the same response. It definitely kicks in much earlier for me on wet pavement on level 3 than lower.
 

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Africano: What I think you are experiencing is a loop created between the traction control and the DCT. Are the results the same when you use your paddles instead of full automatic? (TC kicks in, bike slows and downshifts acordingly, ad infinatum...)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi


I have a manual bike.


Let me just mention, I am experiencing this only on dry tar, haven't tried in wet..
 

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I thought the torque control on the AT was a sophisticated system unlike on my Triumph Rocket 3 where it was simply a ECM-controlled reduction in torque in certain rev ranges in certain gears, In other words you don't feel this primitive system other than the bike's acceleration is poorer than it would otherwise be (always - because you can't swicth the system off).
I assumed that the AT's system worked in a similar fashion to the ABS. It detects something going wrong and applies a correction. This you would feel - probably like hitting a rev limiter, or maybe a pulsing like ABS brakes give you when they kick in.
So to me the first post in this thread is puzzling - if the only difference between using the torque control or not is an overall impression of better acceleration then it sounds more like my primitive Rocket 3 system - or maybe a 'rain' mode on some bikes I have had.
Doesn't sound right.
Mike
 

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Being a conservative rider, I have experienced the effects of TC on my manual AT only couple of times, in both cases when accelerating uphill on a freshly chip-sealed road. I have to say that the effect is rather harsh and clearly derived from the function of the ABS. This is rather a disappointment to me, I was hoping that the three settings of TC would result in three settings of actual engine power output and not in how soon/late the engine power is cut off.
I had three bikes before with ABS (none with TC) and all of them had rather higher frequency of ABS engagement, to show it "literally" it is was like 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzz' vs. 'Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z' on AT, I hope you understand what I mean. I am not sure if it is good or bad, but somehow doesn't feel right to me. I think that the AT's harsh ABS function kind of projects into rather harsh TC engagement. In any case, with my type of riding, I hope I will not have to rely too much on either TC or ABS functions...:)
 

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I am with you on the harshness of the traction control.

I came off a curb on to the road and the traction control cut all power to the back wheel at the strangest of moments
 

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I turn mine off every time I start the bike, because of its crude operation. I don’t believe it’s needed on a bike of this design. Full wheel spin is needed for full control off road, and it just doesn’t have enough torque to require it on road.

I believe what the system does is retard ignition timing to stop small slips, then lean out fuel to further stop more slip, followed by cutting ignition completely to stop major slips. This is why some riders report different characteristics. To me the abrupt ignition cutting when I want to be up and going NOW is frustrating, when I forget to turn TC off...
 

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I turn mine off every time I start the bike, because of its crude operation. I don’t believe it’s needed on a bike of this design. Full wheel spin is needed for full control off road, and it just doesn’t have enough torque to require it on road...
I really appreciate having it the other day when the road was a bit icy. I'm also glad its there in really wet conditions.

This is my first bike with ABS or TC.
 

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I turn mine off every time I start the bike, because of its crude operation. I don’t believe it’s needed on a bike of this design. Full wheel spin is needed for full control off road, and it just doesn’t have enough torque to require it on road...
I really appreciate having it the other day when the road was a bit icy. I'm also glad its there in really wet conditions.

This is my first bike with ABS or TC.
Im sure it’s better than nothing for most riders. Just a fun removal system to me.
 

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Fair enough. I'm not a super aggressive rider on the pavement so I find 1 or 2 bars on the TC is nice to have, especially when it's wet. Full TC is brutal though.

Completely agree about off-road. I wouldn't have bought the bike if I couldn't turn off the TC and rear ABS either.
 

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Fair enough. I'm not a super aggressive rider on the pavement so I find 1 or 2 bars on the TC is nice to have, especially when it's wet. Full TC is brutal though. Completely agree about off-road. I wouldn't have bought the bike if I couldn't turn off the TC and rear ABS either.
TC will not give you more torque on any setting but it will give you LESS torque IF there is wheel slip. "The ECU (electric control unit) calculates the rear-wheel slip ratio based on signals provided by each ABS wheel speed sensor installed on the front and rear wheels. When the slip ratio exceeds a preset value, the ECU reduces fuel injection pitches through feedback control and reduces the engine torque generated, thus restraining the rear tire slip."

If your speed is near zero, then TC will appear brutal even on 1-bar. Example: riding off a curb or starting on rough rocky uphill - the only way to get moving cleanly is with TC OFF.

If your speed is moderate, then TC interaction is fairly smooth and the differences between 1 & 3-bars & off quite obvious. Example: smooth gravel road at 60kmh - just crank on the throttle in 2nd gear and have some fun experimenting.

Here's how the TC works http://world.honda.com/CRF1000L/HSTC/index.html
 

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So the whole thing is just done with fuel. Yikes, seems like a risky engine management strategy to lean it right out till it starts misfiring lol. I wonder if they updated it with 2018, using the standard method controlling the throttle by wire instead.
 
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