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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,
On my last tour I bent my side stand while performing side stand pivots U turns (don't know if this manuver has a name) when I got stuck in tight places.
I only did them 2 times and my side stand began to bend frighteningly.

Now that I have used this technique a few times I am sure I will do it more often. Its a life saver on a single track.

Problem is:
  1. the side stand foot enlarger did not like these maneuvers at all, and is now a trial momento somewhere in the back of Bosnia, and
  2. the side-stand itself is not structurally up to it.
I got a new stock side-stand because the bend made the whole geometry of the parked bike rather precarious, but this is not solving the touring issue.


The part has to solve 2 problems simultaneously:
  1. be strong and stable enough to do pivot turns without failing
  2. have a large foot for soft surfaces, while not interrupting 1.



My solution seem to be
  1. deepening my search for a good strong replacement or
  2. building my own.
Can anyone comment or add anything usefull to this idea of mine. I have spotted the Africa Twin Camel Toe Side Stand, and despite the subconscious attention dual meaning name drew, the design of the foot will not handle too many pivot turns before losing any similarity in appearance to a camel toe.
Also they say it is DOM tubing, but I don't know if its steel or not. If it were steel, I would consider a 3rd solution: to buy the Camel product and mod the foot only.


Here are some pics of preparations for a self made solution. See the profile sketch of the foot as I imagine it would work best for me.
Wood Gas Metal Tool Hand tool


Hood Wood Automotive design Rectangle Automotive exterior


Triangle Slope Parallel Font Handwriting
 

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2022 CRF1100 ATAS ES DCT
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Firstly that seems to be a CRF1000 stand so I presume that is what you have?
Regarding the pivoting, what about a circular extended base made up that only bolts through the middle and a delrin spacer to ease movement or even a thrust bearing although I think that would seize up pretty quick.
 

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2022 Africa Twin Manual. R380B.
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Install the original stand, and measure which clearance you have with the rear Arm.
I think your foot base will hit the arm when is stashed up.
 

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Pack one of these for your single track days, lift the bike up and spin it around (y) :)

Liquid Bottle cap Fluid Personal care Cosmetics


Alternatively use a centerstand and some 5-10" (or whatever you can fit) metal plate/tray to prevent the stand from digging itself into the dirt.
You'd need to use some tie wire to prevent the centerstand from folding.
 

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Hi Guys,
On my last tour I bent my side stand while performing side stand pivots U turns (don't know if this manuver has a name) when I got stuck in tight places.
I only did them 2 times and my side stand began to bend frighteningly.

Now that I have used this technique a few times I am sure I will do it more often. Its a life saver on a single track.

Problem is:
  1. the side stand foot enlarger did not like these maneuvers at all, and is now a trial momento somewhere in the back of Bosnia, and
  2. the side-stand itself is not structurally up to it.
I got a new stock side-stand because the bend made the whole geometry of the parked bike rather precarious, but this is not solving the touring issue.


The part has to solve 2 problems simultaneously:
  1. be strong and stable enough to do pivot turns without failing
  2. have a large foot for soft surfaces, while not interrupting 1.



My solution seem to be
  1. deepening my search for a good strong replacement or
  2. building my own.
Can anyone comment or add anything usefull to this idea of mine. I have spotted the Africa Twin Camel Toe Side Stand, and despite the subconscious attention dual meaning name drew, the design of the foot will not handle too many pivot turns before losing any similarity in appearance to a camel toe.
Also they say it is DOM tubing, but I don't know if its steel or not. If it were steel, I would consider a 3rd solution: to buy the Camel product and mod the foot only.


Here are some pics of preparations for a self made solution. See the profile sketch of the foot as I imagine it would work best for me.
View attachment 75267

View attachment 75268

View attachment 75269
Camel Toe Side Stand is steel tube with a plate foot.
 

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2016 Honda CRF 1000L Manual
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The foot of the Camel Toe side stand can deform as it is just 0.034 inch-thick steel plate. Mine is already slightly bent to the inside though the effect is barely noticeable. See the pic below.

Automotive tire Bicycle part Rim Wood Bicycle drivetrain part


This slight deformation has occurred because of the load I sometimes carry, my ride weight, and the way I mount the bike. I'm long-legged enough to just swing my leg over and sit down. This stand has been on the bike for over a year and 5k miles. It is rock solid and built of steel tube...very strong. I would not hesitate to use if for a KS pivot.
 

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Seems solid but I dont like the plate steel foot and fear it would be bend horribly if one did a pivot turn over it.
Off course, nothing a hammer could not fix.
Hey again @Mastercore. Having ridden with this upgrade for almost a year now I can say it is FAR superior to the OEM product. I can safely say Try It. You Will Not Be Disappointed!

W2
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The foot of the Camel Toe side stand can deform as it is just 0.034 inch-thick steel plate. Mine is already slightly bent to the inside though the effect is barely noticeable. See the pic below.

View attachment 75274

This slight deformation has occurred because of the load I sometimes carry, my ride weight, and the way I mount the bike. I'm long-legged enough to just swing my leg over and sit down. This stand has been on the bike for over a year and 5k miles. It is rock solid and built of steel tube...very strong. I would not hesitate to use if for a KS pivot.
Install the original stand, and measure which clearance you have with the rear Arm.
I think your foot base will hit the arm when is stashed up.
Yeah have to watch for that. But since I am at the luxury of freedom to adjust the ange of the arm when I weld it to the pivot assembly, I hope to avoid this problem.
 

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Another +1 for the Camel Toe sidestand. I'm a heavier rider with shorter legs and use the sidestand for the ol' cowboy mount. The OE stand is ridiculous for such a heavy, adventure bike.

I would not hesitate to do whatever was necessary with the Camel ADV sidestand...it is FAR superior to stock.
 

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Seems solid but I dont like the plate steel foot and fear it would be bend horribly if one did a pivot turn over it.
Off course, nothing a hammer could not fix.
I think the weakest link in the design would be the weld between the down tube and the foot. This tube is very stiff (think thick walled) and I doubt the foot would bend on a pivot. Maybe with 50 of them you might notice some slight deformation like I showed above?

But if the weld is wimpy or not done with the right material and temperature then it can be brittle. I looked carefully at my weld and it looks robust like you would expect for low-carbon steel. FWIW, I wouldn't hesitate to swing my AT around on it at all.
 

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Hey folks, I'm going to invite the Camel ADV folks to weigh in on this discussion. Stand by...

email details:

Hey Camel,

There is a short discussion regarding kickstand pivots with an AT that has several members touting the Camel KS. Please have a look at these posts and consider commenting.

Thanks, and best regards,

WeeWilly
Tougher side stand with reversed foot enlargment
 
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The Camel Toe is 1" OD, 0.095" wall DOM carbon steel. You will break the side stand pivot bolt before you bend the tube. The pivot block, foot, and spring hook are TIG welded to the tube. It's plenty beefy enough for pivot turns, mounting your bike with the stand down, or breaking the bead on your buddy's flat tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The Camel Toe is 1" OD, 0.095" wall DOM carbon steel. You will break the side stand pivot bolt before you bend the tube. The pivot block, foot, and spring hook are TIG welded to the tube. It's plenty beefy enough for pivot turns, mounting your bike with the stand down, or breaking the bead on your buddy's flat tire.
Yeah your product looks pretty nice. I was about to buy one, but the online shop I was on was sold out with no idea of when they would be back.
Also things get out of hand with customs costs when I procure them from outside Switzerland, and then get them shipped to me.

My fear with your product is the design of the foot.
Wide it is,
so I think it addresses the variety of different surfaces we adventure riders find ourselves in pretty well.
But I fear this foot will get mangled in no time at all if one were to try a few pivot U turns. The very use case that drives this thread.

If you look at some of my other posts, you will see I am one of those guys that runs his AT ('17) into the most extreme terrain that one dares to on my solo trips.

Here is a taste. Gonna get wet again today...

Sky Water Mountain Plant Tree


I had a foot extender on my bike on the last tour (Balkans, Turkey, Georgia) but during one of these pivot turns, it gave up. I was too far away to go back to look for it by the time I noticed it was gone.
But as I mentioned in the first post of this tread, this was not the main problem.

Its the stand itself.
The Aluminum stand is pretty weak. (shame on you, Honda)
You guy have obviously also taken note of this, inspiring the production of the camel toe stand.

My stock stand began to bend after the first U turn recovery, and the second time, the bend became precipitous.
It was becoming iffy to even keep using it on the road, because of how far my bike was now leaning over.

As I said, I probably would have bought your stand if the shop I was on here had them in stock within some reasonable time,
but now on closer examination, seems the stylized foot would become problematic before too many pivot U turns were performed.
Especially since you put a split into its "toe" (that give it its distinctive name) that weakens that leading edge a lot more.

If this is something you guys thought of, I do not know. Maybe you could comment on this in this thread. Maybe I am underestimating this foot of yours.

Just as an aside, I am a pretty light weight traveler. Unlike some guys here who are loading their bikes quite some (God bless them all here, and their passion for the Honda AT, not to mention all the hard work they put into keeping all the ADV accessory companies humming along, heheheee). And I only weigh in at about 95kg (210lb) so the stand is not (should not) experiencing extraordinary stress.

Considering I have limited options to buy one of your stands myself here,
I would welcome it if Camel ADV were to offer me one of these Camel Toes for free to test. (sounds funny now I write it out! hehehehe) "Camel toe anyone?"
If you were to be so kind I would put it through its paces (I would anyway), and try to document it on video as best I can for you and the world to see.

Now that I have tried out the pivot U turn maneuver a few times, I have definitely felt more confident to venture down trails that I may have balked at before.
Being able to pivot the bike around on its footprint certainly opens the possibilities of self recovery. But the side stand has to be up to it, or it could spell a disastrous situation!
Gone done a trail assuming I can twist my bike out of it, only to snap the side stand in the middle of the recovery and in the middle of nowhere! OUCH.

btw, I am assuming that your side stand plays well with the stock center stand on the AT.
Now I write this, I am sure it does, because if it were problematic, the guys here that sport one of your products would say straight out. They are on the ball with pointing out both the good and bad of stuff they are passionate about - all things AT.
 

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Well,
I have yet to pivot my 540 lb. A/T on the side stand and most likely, never will. I try and keep myself out of predicaments that would require that motion. But, if I EVER did have to do it, and in that event, it tweaked the foot due to it being a bit on the thin side for that kind of task, well, to me there's a simple remedy. When I returned home, I'd bring out the hammer and dolly tools and bring it right back to dead flat.

Then, I'd place piece of flat stock that would be slightly larger than that foot and trace it all 360 degrees. Then cut it out and match it to the existing foot to make sure it looks identical. Now, because I got a whole bunch of welding equipment hanging around my garage, I'd weld that new piece right to the existing foot. Then grind ever so slightly all the way around it just to face things off and make it look factory. Then paint.

Now, I'd have anywhere from double the thickness or triple, depending on what kind of flat stock I'd have hanging around.

Now, if you like the idea of this, but lack the welding part of the process, then some steel rivets would work. Or, even some smaller 10-24 stainless flat head machine screws inserted up from the bottom. I say flat head because, the new piece could be counter-sunk to the tapered flat heads and therefore, there would be no protruding heads on the contact surface.

You could pivot that big girl all day, every day and there would be no wear on any screw heads or nuts or even rivets if they were installed from the underside. Just an idea for you that may be concerned about the foot on the Camel Toe.
Scott
 
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