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Correct. I have no plans to run intentionally lowered air pressures in either front or rear OEM wheel after the 3M tubeless conversion. I am just not into off roading to that degree, that would be beyond my skill set.
 

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I've run as low as 18psi front and rear offroad with the 3M set up using a Shinko 804 front and Mitas E-07+ rear. I've ridden some pretty nasty stuff with no side effects....yet. YMMV.

Just don't hit that rock. You know the one, yep that rock, the one you should have dodged. The one you are staring at while someone is helping pick your bike up off of you.
 

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Yup, all road miles. Approx 30 at the front 38 on the rear. I'm on 21k miles now and fitted Outex at 12k. Had 3 punctures with tubes and haven't had one since changing and the weird thing was on all 3 occasions we couldn't find anything that had caused the punctures. Maybe the top of the spoke rubbing?
 

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I've just went tubeless too. After fannying about with M3 tape and and 5200 marine grade sealant for over a week and being unable to get a decent result, I scraped it all off and went with my original plan. A tube of Upol Tiger seal for £8.50 from Eurocarparts. Man, that stuff sticks like sh1t to a blanket. Lol.
 

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playinatwork said: "I've run as low as 18psi front and rear offroad with the 3M set up using a Shinko 804 front and Mitas E-07+ rear. I've ridden some pretty nasty stuff with no side effects....yet. YMMV. "

Thanks for that information. I'm sure it's on the forum somewhere, but I haven't see anyone else list off-road tire pressures used with a Tubeless conversion.

Thanks for the reminder about avoiding THAT rock.
 

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I've just went tubeless too. After fannying about with M3 tape and and 5200 marine grade sealant for over a week and being unable to get a decent result, I scraped it all off and went with my original plan. A tube of Upol Tiger seal for £8.50 from Eurocarparts. Man, that stuff sticks like sh1t to a blanket. Lol.
Did you just apply over the spoke heads and thats it??
 

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Did you just apply over the spoke heads and thats it??
Yes , that's it, remember to clean the area first though with something like turps, petrol or panel wipe and let it dry. Tiger seal is a polyurethane adhesive / sealer, similar to the stuff bartubeless use. Once it sets it ain't coming off without a Stanley knife or angle grinder. :grin2:
 

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Yes , that's it, remember to clean the area first though with something like turps, petrol or panel wipe and let it dry. Tiger seal is a polyurethane adhesive / sealer, similar to the stuff bartubeless use. Once it sets it ain't coming off without a Stanley knife or angle grinder. :grin2:
That looks great and how did you also do the valve and what miles have you done using this method?
 

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That looks great and how did you also do the valve and what miles have you done using this method?
Just bought 8mm tubeless valves for a couple of quid from eBay. They fit from the inside and you tighten a lock nut down on the valve stem on the outside. I've also ordered a tyre pressure monitoring system just to keep an eye on the pressures.
The back tyre has been fitted and hasn't lost any pressure over 4 days , so, looking good so far.

The beauty of using 8mm valve core is, if you are going off-road and suffer tyre damage that tyre strings can't repair, you simply remove the valve and fit a tube and you're good to go. The best of both worlds.
 

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I'm also new to this game of using tubeless tires on spoked/tubed rims. I've read accounts from several members that have fitted tubeless tires on their spoked rims using either the Outex tubeless system or the 3M tape and marine grade sealant with good results. There are even videos from reputable individuals telling us how it's done.

I'm wondering, though, what holds the tire bead to the rim if there is no tube in there and what allows the bead to seat in a rim not designed for such a tire? According to PTwin, there are dedicated rims for this task (such as the wheels mentioned above on this page), but in the case where the user just uses the wheels that came with the bike (e.g. Africa Twin OEM), what keeps the bead seated and stuck to the outside of the rim? Just air pressure? What am I missing here?
You spotted the problem that most ignore in these discussions.

The rear wheel had bead retention grooves like a tubeless rim. This means that your TL tire bead will maintain its seal in event of a flat (with the same probability as on a tubeless rim anyway; occasionally the bead seal fails when you get a flat tire). And it also means it's harder to patch a tube on that rim, due to the effort of breaking the bead. Tubeless conversion seems like a good idea in back.

The front has no such grooves, and nothing hold the bead against the rim. With the OEM TT tire on mine there was a little friction, but it was easy to push the bead into the drop center. With the TL tire I installed there was no friction (it was a looser fit), the bead was hard to seal at home, and when deflated it retracted into the drop center by itself: there was zero chance of doing a simple plug and inflate roadside flat repair, so I reinstalled the tube.

Maybe if I'd used a bead sealing compound I would have had a greater chance of being able to plug and go, but I expect still a high chance of needing to install a tube in event of a puncture. Better to already have the tube in place. With luck (or more skill than I've demonstrated so far) I'll be able to patch the tube without removing the wheel.
 

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You can do it! 8^) Saw a YouTube video once where the guy was in India and had a flat, had no tools, and some random Indian "mechanic" patched the tube without taking the wheel off the bike.
 

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Here is the point you need to consider: People tell you that the extra hump on the tubeless rims (and the rear AT rim) will retain the tire bead in the event of a flat. And that’s all well and good.

But tell me this: what retains a tube type tire on the ridgeless rim (for safety sake) when you get a flat? Because evidence shows that tubes get flats more often than tubeless does, and when a tube gets a flat it typically loses air faster than a tubeless puncture. So, what prevents a tube type tire from coming off the rim catastrophically?

The clear answer is, nothing. And if nothing i# keeping it on there with a vulnerable tube inside, why be concerned that nothing is keeping the tubeless tire bead seated. You are no worse off fir it, and maybe better off since tubeless punctures tend to be slower deflating.

Would it be better to have the extra ridge? Probably so. But is it imperative? Not so much.
 

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What keeps the tire of a tubed tire from coming off the rim in the case of a leak? Well, from what I understand, a stiff sidewall and the air pressure inside the tube. Can it be run to 0 psi? Definitely not. Neither can a tubeless tire. I don't believe that a tubed style rim necessarily means the lack of a hump. Is nothing keeping the tire bead of a tubed or tubeless tire seated against the rim? No. In both cases air pressure holds it there until it falls sufficiently. This amount will depend on several factors including the nature of the puncture,specific tire used, speed and total weight of the bike (including rider, accessories and cargo). As you said, having the hump is not imperative.
 

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Hi guys and gals, new to this site and just wanted to say thanks for all the info regarding tublis tires. Man, kind of confusing but considering going with the Outex system. I called NUETECH since I have their system on my dirt bike but the rims on the AT are too wide for their NUETECH system. Also thinking of just using the stock front rim and hoping that when I'm in the dirt with 18 psi I won't have a problem with the front bead. Any and all thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks again.
 

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Here is the point you need to consider: People tell you that the extra hump on the tubeless rims (and the rear AT rim) will retain the tire bead in the event of a flat. And that’s all well and good.

But tell me this: what retains a tube type tire on the ridgeless rim (for safety sake) when you get a flat? Because evidence shows that tubes get flats more often than tubeless does, and when a tube gets a flat it typically loses air faster than a tubeless puncture. So, what prevents a tube type tire from coming off the rim catastrophically?

The clear answer is, nothing. And if nothing i# keeping it on there with a vulnerable tube inside, why be concerned that nothing is keeping the tubeless tire bead seated. You are no worse off fir it, and maybe better off since tubeless punctures tend to be slower deflating.
If your goal in your tubeless conversion is slower deflation upon puncture, that's great.

But if your goal is plug and inflate roadside repair, you likely won't get that when the bead seal breaks. In which case you may find yourself removing the valve stem and installing a tube by the side of the trail. In which case it might have been simpler to patch a tube that was already in the tire--with luck and skill you might not need to remove the wheel at all for that.

From my perspective if the tubeless conversion doesn't yield easier flat repair it's not worth it.

Also it seemed to me when I compared the tubeless tire with and without a tube, that having a strip of deflated tube in the rim gives some added margin of safety for retaining the tire in the event of a flat. I'm not planning to test that theory or try to prove it to anyone. Compare for yourself and make your own judgement if you're interested, and you haven't already.

The tubeless tire I compared was a looser fit than the OEM tube type tire. Maybe I would have seen things differently with a tighter fitting tire.
 

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Since the AT rear rim has the “safety” ridges, but the front clearly does not, it may be that the best course here is a hybrid setup of a tube in the front and tubeless in the back. Experience shows the rear is far more likely to get a puncture from a nail or other sharp object. Tubeless rear allows a roadside plug repair in the back. The rear also tends to wear out about twice as fast as the front, so it being tubeless makes the tire swaps less of a pain. The main mechanism of flats in the front seem to be pinch flats after airing down. But in my experience, the front doesn’t benefit as much as the rear from lower pressure, so to avoid those pinch flats don’t air down, or not too much.

I still plan on going tubeless front and rear. Just thinking out loud here in possible compromises...
 

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Been on the planet a fair while now and riding since 13yrs of age, 65 in February, had my share of punctures on tubed and tubeless and can assure you a puncture at speed when lent over on tubed generally puts you on your arris, the tyre deflates in an instant and rolls of the rim a moment, front let go on an XS650 and had me surfing tarmac before I could react.
On tubeless the handling deteriorates but gives you time to realise a problem generally.
 

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In this case would it be possible to seal the wheels with tape or silicon and still use the tube so in case of puncture the tyre doesn't deflate quick and allows you to control the bike or even ride back home. But what about the valve of the tube? how do you seal that through the hole in the wheel? An O-ring and a tight nut on the outside?
 

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In this case would it be possible to seal the wheels with tape or silicon and still use the tube so in case of puncture the tyre doesn't deflate quick and allows you to control the bike or even ride back home. But what about the valve of the tube? how do you seal that through the hole in the wheel? An O-ring and a tight nut on the outside?
This is basically what I did. Full tubeless conversion using the 3M tape and silicone on the back. I also put the tape and silicone on the front, to block the air holes in the spokes, but I still run a tube in there. The front tube has an inner nut and an outer nut. I put some silicone under the outer nut and a bit in the valve gap so even if the front does puncture it will be very slow, or a slow as a tubless in any case. If it's a screw that is bedded into the tire well, I might not even notice. For that reason I have a SPY TPMS to keep an eye on things. An O ring might also work but with time and the weather might deteriorate quicker than silicone, especially if it is getting squished. I've seen online in the US some "push in" valves, that you can push into the rim from the outside. Might get one when I can so that even if the tube valve fails, I can maybe plus, re-inflate, and get home at least.
 
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