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WARNING to DCT riders: DO NOT ride if you have sticky left switchgear

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#202 · (Edited)
DervMan said:
But that's the point, the pulley on the TB isn't directly connected to the butterfly. The throttle is only connected to the brain. This is not the 'simple' bike some people think it is. Ride it and enjoy but it's not a mechanical throttle, it's simply not practical with EURO4 regs.
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You need to do better than "assert" the pulley on the TB isn't directly connected to the butterfly DervMan. On it's face the statement makes no sense; what else would the pulley on the throttle body be connected to if not the rod to which the butterflies are attached, and which causes them to open and close and engine speed to increase and decrease? Further, if I read the parts microfiche (THROTTLE BODY section) correctly, the cables from the hand throttle do connect directly to the throttle body pulley, on the right hand side of the TB, just where the butterflies are located. As for the throttle cables, they are both one piece and don't seem to have any connection to the ECU (brain). Unless you can show where and how that is not so, I believe Beamer has it right. your dealer has it wrong; the Africa Twin does have a mechanical throttle and is not ride by wire.

This is a link to the fiche: http://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hon/5702d20c87a8660f4c83bd8b/throttle-body

Your dealer might have misinterpreted the function of the idle air control valve assembly set (assembly), which has a "motor" but the motor regulates air needed by the engine at idle. That motor is probably controlled by the ECU but it is not connected to the butterfly rod or plates and would have no effect on engine speed other than at idle.
 
#206 ·
The very reason I Picked the manual gears. I had an awful experience with Ducati and their electronics and vowed never to go fancy electronics again. My ideal bike would just have ABS, even points ignition. Tech is fine until it goes bad. Fine on the race track where there is all the support and experts but crap on the adventure trail or outback.
50 years of experience tells me.
 
#207 ·
warrimurf said:
The very reason I Picked the manual gears. I had an awful experience with Ducati and their electronics and vowed never to go fancy electronics again. My ideal bike would just have ABS, even points ignition. Tech is fine until it goes bad. Fine on the race track where there is all the support and experts but crap on the adventure trail or outback.
50 years of experience tells me.
Click to expand...
^^THIS^^

A year late to the party, but browsing the twenty plus pages, I couldn't have said it better.
I like the idea of DCT in heavy traffic and in rough hill climbs, but seems to add a layer of complexity to break at the most inopportune of times. Yes bikes have a lot of tech these days, but maybe we should also evaluate wether all the new bits belong on each bike. At least with a manual, if out on the trail one can limp home with no clutch, or even stuck in one gear.
This is an adventure bike, not a city tourer or track machine.
 
#209 ·
Hi fellow Honda riders. I've had a same experience on my July 2018 DCT Africa Twin Adv Sport. Bike has been with Honda since 3rd of September 2018. On 2/9/2018 I and my pillion wife were out on a run around some of County Tyrones beauty spots. In the Gortin Glens Carpark we were sitting, bike in S1, revs gathered and bike took off without input from me or so I believe, crashing into another bike knocking him to the ground causing almost £1000 of damage. We on the other hand continued until bike rested on a low wall. We were both shocked as you can imagine, my wife suffering bruised ribs which are taking forever to heal. So bike taken to Hursts Honda Belfast with 1052 miles. Diagnostics apparently showed nothing as did their run out on it. It was returned to me as they needed space. I contacted Honda UK and may as well not. I contacted Honda Customer Relations and same may as well not. Bike is now at GS Honda, Ballymena. The chap lifting bike did say he believed something was not right with throttle and bike was transported for fixing. It may be fixed soon but I don't know what to do. I'm afraid of this bike and don't wish to ride it again so no doubt it'll be for sale. Though the issue is what happened and I sincerely hope that it never happens to anyone else. I wish I had contact with someone who could point me in the right direction to help others.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
#210 ·
PTwin said:
Oh, on another note what are you gonna do when your clutch cable snaps?
Click to expand...
In most places ride it without using the clutch by managing engine revs and go buy a new clutch cable, in the middle of nowhere ride it without using the clutch by managing engine revs and go buy a new clutch cable. If I was going off road then do some prep (install spare cables) and swap to a spare clutch cable already installed alongside the first one. (used to ride my KTM all the time off road without using the clutch – worked fine)
 
#214 ·
No longer on road, checked MOT history, no bike existed!

S4MST3R said:
Hi All - sorry for the lack of updates, there was really nothing to report until last night. My days have been filled with anger and frustration at Honda UK Customer Service who leave me voicemails saying, 'We've an update on your bike' - only for me to find out when I call back that it's a courtesy call to yet again say they know fook all. To be fair, my case seems to have been stuck with a work experience kid who's no knowledge of bikes or riding. Everything he says appears to be scripted :)

In summary: the dealer, Blade Honda Swindon (big shout out to those guys) have been excellent - great communication, lending me bikes - going out of their way to try to keep me happy and genuinely being empathetic towards the crazy situation I found myself in

The dealer has basically followed instructions from Honda Japan (case was escalated Honda UK, Honda Europe, Honda Japan very quickly). They have replaced switchgear, gearbox sensors, ECU and clutch solenoids - however for the past week have been put on hold and told not to let me have the bike back. I presume that if I just walked into the dealer I have the right to take back my property? :)

What's maddened me is that this is my machine, that I paid cash for - yet at no point has anybody actually asked me if it's OK to do all this work, nor provided any justification for doing it whatsoever. I told Honda that they should be paying me a daily rate for using my bike as a test bed whilst they assess the financial impact of a recall

I have been promised a technical report by Honda for over 2 weeks now. Nothing. I honestly don't think I'll ever get anything from them. The final straw came yesterday when I again pushed for escalation and was told, "Honda are sending technicians over from Japan to investigate and we have no idea how long that may take". Clearly something is very wrong here

Positive news though - somebody somewhere in Honda has realised that the situation is a bit of a joke and is arranging to drop off one of the Honda fleet Africa Twins for me to use for the duration it takes them to get me a brand new machine. This is good, it puts me back in the position I started - however they should have done this within the first two weeks in my mind

So I guess I'll never see VX16YYS again

Do I want another one? **** yes I do. Do I want DCT - oh yes. Will I try and get a black one with my old gold wheels on...........maybe
Click to expand...

I checked to see if VX16YYS was still on the road, via "check MOT History" and its not listed, so either Honda can erase the errors or maybe the reg no was wrong
 
#215 ·
Yromulus said:
Guessing here but once water gets into electronic circuits and connections it can be totally unpredictable. Especially as the switches on the left side control both TC and the gear changing. What's a little more mystifying is the revving of the engine but as that's no doubt handled via the same CPU it might just be all the confusing signals from the left control that are outside normal parameters and then all bets are off... Or that the right unit has problems!! Strange that Honda didn't test this too well - or maybe production units differ slightly from test units.

There was another owner who reported a startup issue on this forum - it crunched slightly and then wouldn't engage a gear until it was restarted. So maybe the various manifestations are out there.

So Honda has a problem - well, we DCT owners have a problem anyway. Not only will we not trust the bikes but we won't be able to flog 'em! Who'll buy one if this starts happening more often?

Given that even the manual units are getting switchgear problems the owners of those bikes might want to lean less on the TC...

B*gger.
Click to expand...
Water in electrical circuits is never predictable. In most instances it does as expected and shorts everything out. Sometimes it blocks the current path and other times completes the current path despite the switch being in the open position. With a multi switch housing as found on motorcycles all bets are off.
 
#216 ·
S4MST3R said:
Hi All. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I need to share my DCT experience of yesterday after my 600 mile service with you

In short, if you ride DCT and have the sticky left switchgear syndrome please TAKE CARE

Bike had its first service today (579 miles). I drew the dealer's attention to the sticking button on the left switchgear (the SET button that is used to control displayed fuel consumption / trip meters / ambient temp blah blah blah). Whilst outside showing them the problem, the DOWN select button packed up. I tell them I am not happy and fear the problem may spread to the paddle gear shift buttons (for non DCT riders the gear shifters are part of the same switch set)

Dealer services bike. Just an oil dump, oil filter and another filter for the DCT. Dealer tells me that the left hand switchgear is full of water. I ride in any weather, and on Wednesday that meant through foot deep floods. This IS an Africa Twin - that shouldn't have happened. Dealer logs a case with Honda, new left switchgear on it's way from Brussels to be fitted on Monday under warranty. Cool. I'll live without worrying about fuel consumption for a few days

Dealer test rides it after servicing it, I pay, gives me keys. Get out on the A420 for the 15 mile ride home - bike seems fine, although a bit more vibey than before, plus they gave me back the ludicrous amount of throttle free play. I ride it in a spirited fashion using a combination of it's full auto mode (DRIVE) and SPORTS 3, manually intervening to drop cogs using the paddle shifter upon corner entry. Bwaaarp Bwaaaarp Bwaaaaarp loving it

Ride into the town I live. It's busy. It's school kick out time and the roads have parked cars everywhere, people everywhere. Old boy coming towards me in a big Merc so I stop and wave him through. At this point I have the bike in Drive mode - it forces first gear on me when stopped, I have the option to select neutral but don't. In this situation the DCT acts like a twist and go effectively

Old boy passes me, I apply a light and constant throttle position - we pull away. (normally in this mode the bike short shifts up the box at about 1800rpm - it's ridiculously mild and at 35mph is usually already up into 5th). So we pull away as usual, and at about 5-10mph the revs suddenly go wild - HIGH - right up near the redline (but not banging off the limiter) - as if it found a false neutral and then of it's own accord dumps the clutch! Not it's usual beautifully smooth clutch work, it DUMPED the clutch. I was totally out of control, up on the back wheel in the middle of town, just missed a parked car - not knowing that the ** was going on. Manage to get it under control and didn't run anybody over. ** me right up. Badly

Once I'd calmed down and turned the bike off, I nursed it to a safer place and tried to replicate the issue. I felt bad. I thought it was my error. I can confirm that the same thing occurred a second time, only this time I was ready for it. It finds 'false' neutrals and is highly dangerous because I have no actual control of the clutch like on a manual bike!

If I had a pillion on the back we would have looped the thing in the middle of town - without question. Oh how I wish I had had my GoPro on

Don't want it anymore, don't want to ride it. Utterly dangerous. I have spoken to Honda UK - WHO WILL GET BACK TO ME IN THREE WORKING DAYS - despite the fact that this is currently Europe's best selling bike and almost 50% of buyers are opting for the the very clever, very unpredictable got a mind of it's *** own dual clutch transmission

Don't know what else to say apart from please please please take care on your DCTs, especially if you have sticking left switchgear. This morning I am furious, pissed off, angry but have collated my thoughts. It seems that the left switchgear is sending confusing signals to the gearbox - which in turn is giving random neutrals and applying totally random unexpected clutch behaviour

Gutted

Honda UK don't seem to want to take me seriously, so until they do I'll carry on being interviewed by MCN and will spread my experience far and wide


Stop problem ATAS DCT

Had an incident yesterday and would like to tell and maybe get feedback. I am riding an Africa Twin 2020 Adventure Sport DCT bought in May 2020, never had DCT before
1. The first time it happened when I was on the road in the mountains. My ATAS was fully loaded with hard panniers and a lady on the passenger seat. A car stopped in front of me and I was driving slowly behind it. I was planning to stop smoothly. I had ca. 10-15km/h on the speedometer when seconds before the bike supposed to stop, the engine started to vibrate and instead of disengaging and going into a neutral position(I don’t do it actively with the switch) the motorcycle pushed forward by keeping the throttle open and I was barely able to stop it by using the front brake lever. When we stopped, I switched it off and thought: what is going on? I thought I did something wrong and came on the throttle while braking which is kind of hard but possible.
Setting – Sport S3 because of the load and standard tour setup, navi per Apple carplay so I cant tell any other display setting
The second time it happened I was on tour with a buddy of mine. The motorcycle was half loaded and only me driving. The weather conditions were great. My buddy was driving 10 meters in front of me. We were supposed to turn left. He stopped, I was only using the front brake rolling with a speed of ca. 20-25km/h and planned to stop 2 meters behind him. The engine started to vibrate again, supposed to downshift and disengaging the clutch. But instead of breaking, the bike pushed again forward with getting more power. I bumped into my buddy’s right pannier and ripped it off, pushed the steering to the right site, and with kind of jumping (felt like the front wheel were jumping up and down). I was able to stop the bike 5-6 meters away from the crash site in the middle of the road. This event took 3-5 seconds. Lucky the street was empty. We moved the bikes to the site. I tried to calm down and evaluate what happened. I had navigation on the CarPlay so I can’t tell if the rev was up or not. In the situation, I was not able to reach the ignition switch nor the rear brake as both feet were on the ground.
Setting was on standard Tour and sport mode S1
Click to expand...
 
#217 ·
S4MST3R said:
Hi All. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I need to share my DCT experience of yesterday after my 600 mile service with you

In short, if you ride DCT and have the sticky left switchgear syndrome please TAKE CARE

Bike had its first service today (579 miles). I drew the dealer's attention to the sticking button on the left switchgear (the SET button that is used to control displayed fuel consumption / trip meters / ambient temp blah blah blah). Whilst outside showing them the problem, the DOWN select button packed up. I tell them I am not happy and fear the problem may spread to the paddle gear shift buttons (for non DCT riders the gear shifters are part of the same switch set)

Dealer services bike. Just an oil dump, oil filter and another filter for the DCT. Dealer tells me that the left hand switchgear is full of water. I ride in any weather, and on Wednesday that meant through foot deep floods. This IS an Africa Twin - that shouldn't have happened. Dealer logs a case with Honda, new left switchgear on it's way from Brussels to be fitted on Monday under warranty. Cool. I'll live without worrying about fuel consumption for a few days

Dealer test rides it after servicing it, I pay, gives me keys. Get out on the A420 for the 15 mile ride home - bike seems fine, although a bit more vibey than before, plus they gave me back the ludicrous amount of throttle free play. I ride it in a spirited fashion using a combination of it's full auto mode (DRIVE) and SPORTS 3, manually intervening to drop cogs using the paddle shifter upon corner entry. Bwaaarp Bwaaaarp Bwaaaaarp loving it

Ride into the town I live. It's busy. It's school kick out time and the roads have parked cars everywhere, people everywhere. Old boy coming towards me in a big Merc so I stop and wave him through. At this point I have the bike in Drive mode - it forces first gear on me when stopped, I have the option to select neutral but don't. In this situation the DCT acts like a twist and go effectively

Old boy passes me, I apply a light and constant throttle position - we pull away. (normally in this mode the bike short shifts up the box at about 1800rpm - it's ridiculously mild and at 35mph is usually already up into 5th). So we pull away as usual, and at about 5-10mph the revs suddenly go wild - HIGH - right up near the redline (but not banging off the limiter) - as if it found a false neutral and then of it's own accord dumps the clutch! Not it's usual beautifully smooth clutch work, it DUMPED the clutch. I was totally out of control, up on the back wheel in the middle of town, just missed a parked car - not knowing that the ** was going on. Manage to get it under control and didn't run anybody over. ** me right up. Badly

Once I'd calmed down and turned the bike off, I nursed it to a safer place and tried to replicate the issue. I felt bad. I thought it was my error. I can confirm that the same thing occurred a second time, only this time I was ready for it. It finds 'false' neutrals and is highly dangerous because I have no actual control of the clutch like on a manual bike!

If I had a pillion on the back we would have looped the thing in the middle of town - without question. Oh how I wish I had had my GoPro on

Don't want it anymore, don't want to ride it. Utterly dangerous. I have spoken to Honda UK - WHO WILL GET BACK TO ME IN THREE WORKING DAYS - despite the fact that this is currently Europe's best selling bike and almost 50% of buyers are opting for the the very clever, very unpredictable got a mind of it's *** own dual clutch transmission

Don't know what else to say apart from please please please take care on your DCTs, especially if you have sticking left switchgear. This morning I am furious, pissed off, angry but have collated my thoughts. It seems that the left switchgear is sending confusing signals to the gearbox - which in turn is giving random neutrals and applying totally random unexpected clutch behaviour

Gutted

Honda UK don't seem to want to take me seriously, so until they do I'll carry on being interviewed by MCN and will spread my experience far and wide

Click to expand...
S4MST3R said:
It is a brand new generation of DCT though (3rd gen?). But DCT has been around for 6 years on a production Honda, and has proven incredibly robust

Little update:

Honda Assist arrived at lunchtime - and then left again as the vehicle they sent wasn't capable of carrying the AT. Haha - you couldn't make it up! Bigger truck came a couple of hours later and just before loading it I started the bike up. Interestingly it wouldn't engage drive and wouldn't show neutral on the gear indicator (green N light was displayed on the side segment)

It seems to have gone into some sort of failsafe mode and just had a flashing "-" where it would normally show, "N"

None the wiser yet as to what happened yesterday, but it's now at the dealers and am expecting a new left hand switch set to be fitted on Monday morning. I really need them to conduct a thorough test as my confidence in what was becoming a brilliant machine, up until it went wild on me, has taken a bit of a knock :)

Honda have called me a few times wanting details and have committed to working closely and supporting the dealer in investigating what went on

Thanks for finding that post marekm. That's the first I've seen of anybody else having any form of DCT trouble. I've been riding it in the wet since I picked it up, including through some pretty big floods on Wednesday. I did a lot of research before deciding on the DCT over the manual, and it's still the version that fits my needs

Click to expand...
Hi there, just read your earlier post on your bad DCT experience. The reason I am reading this is I am trying to find if there have been such problems. I recently took delivery of the new Honda Rebel 1100 DCT. 2012 edition. Seemed pretty good for what I needed, have been riding variety of bikes over the years and touring a fair part of Europe in the process, so not inexperienced rider, anyway low seat height, light . Great.
The Rebel boasts the Africa Twin engine so all in all a similar set up. Have covered approx 200 miles in the 3 weeks of owning. I had a problem at slow moving speed whilst manoeuvring into parking bay. Had to stop for the usual moron looking at his phone walking out of the gas station in front of me, no problem, started off again in Standard mode, at walking pace, slight twist of bars to bring me into parking space. Suddenly without warning, bike goes for it high revving,back wheel comes around, throws bike over and me under it. Had to use kill switch on engine. Shook up but nothing serious. Bike not so fortunate, 2 dinks in tank with scratch to paint work, bar end grazed. Not happy.
Back to dealers, nah nothing heard about such issues before, implying it’s me not used to the bike, they took for test ride no issues, make out it’s the throttle that’s very responsive, use rain mode etc etc. Not at all happy with the situation, not happy with the bike, I think some one is going to get seriously injured in what appears to now have been a documented fault since your posting. Thanks for your info. Will continue researching this issue and will deal with Honda in good time. Safe riding.
 
#218 ·
Wildbill said:
Hi there, just read your earlier post on your bad DCT experience. The reason I am reading this is I am trying to find if there have been such problems. I recently took delivery of the new Honda Rebel 1100 DCT. 2012 edition. Seemed pretty good for what I needed, have been riding variety of bikes over the years and touring a fair part of Europe in the process, so not inexperienced rider, anyway low seat height, light . Great.
The Rebel boasts the Africa Twin engine so all in all a similar set up. Have covered approx 200 miles in the 3 weeks of owning. I had a problem at slow moving speed whilst manoeuvring into parking bay. Had to stop for the usual moron looking at his phone walking out of the gas station in front of me, no problem, started off again in Standard mode, at walking pace, slight twist of bars to bring me into parking space. Suddenly without warning, bike goes for it high revving,back wheel comes around, throws bike over and me under it. Had to use kill switch on engine. Shook up but nothing serious. Bike not so fortunate, 2 dinks in tank with scratch to paint work, bar end grazed. Not happy.
Back to dealers, nah nothing heard about such issues before, implying it’s me not used to the bike, they took for test ride no issues, make out it’s the throttle that’s very responsive, use rain mode etc etc. Not at all happy with the situation, not happy with the bike, I think some one is going to get seriously injured in what appears to now have been a documented fault since your posting. Thanks for your info. Will continue researching this issue and will deal with Honda in good time. Safe riding.
Click to expand...
Sorry should have been 2021 edition Rebel.
 
#220 ·
Beardyweirdy said:
You maybe right Washryc, it's not that new and it's only one incident. Same could happen with any other part of a bike I guess... Just that it's new to me and probably most on here and I find it takes me a while to catch up with tech changing. I still ride with two fingers covering the clutch from starting on two strokes, old habits and all that..... I'll see how it goes and not do anything rash.
Click to expand...
Its not the only incident of its kind, i have had 4 DCT bikes and had no problem but have read of at least 3 more.
 
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