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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The wheel alignment on my new ATAS is out by 1.5mm on the swingarm marks (about half a mark). Has anyone checked with a wheel alignment to see how accurate these graduations are ?
 

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Best use a vernier gauge then, so you ignor marks on one side off the swing arm (as long as the adjuster stops are in the same place!). :grin2:
 

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Kev - I'm not sure the above comments are much help. I noticed when I picked my bike up after the PDI that the rear wheel was considerably out of alignment when checked with a chain alignment tool. But I didn't check what the indicators showed. Once I have the wheel aligned properly, I simply make the same number of partial turns on the right side as I have done on the left when it needs adjustment - so I never use the indicator things. However, I have just realised that this approach will not work when out on a trip if a rear puncture has to be repaired - unless I take the chain alignment tool with me. In any case I will check the correlation of the indicator devices next time I realign the wheel.
Mike
 

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Presumably the only real way to do this is take the tyres off and measure the wheels against each other?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have just ordered a chain alignment gauge (rod type) that should be here in a couple of days.
From what I have learned recently there are several ways to get wheels aligned.
1. Use a mechanical chain alignment tool. Cheap, easy to use. Extend the rod with a straight edge for greater accuracy
2. Use a lazer chain alignment tool. Costs more, is very easy to use and accurate
3. Measure wheel centre to swingarm pivot either side. Exhaust gets in the way.
4. Use a bricklayers line (has a bit of stretch) to check rear wheel alignment with front wheel. Needs a lot of patience to get it right.
5. If you trust the swingarm marks then use them. Start with the chain too slack and wind each side in small increments until marks are the same and tension is right. Doing it this way removes any error due to possible clearance between adjuster block and spindle as the block is hard against the spindle all the time.
I have found that with the ATAS the chain slack on centre stand is 5mm greater than when on side stand. That's as expected as the suspension is at max extension when on centre stand. The handbook says set chain tension on side stand at 45 to 55 mm. So add 5 mm to that when setting up on centre stand.
 

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I have just ordered a chain alignment gauge (rod type) that should be here in a couple of days.
From what I have learned recently there are several ways to get wheels aligned.
1. Use a mechanical chain alignment tool. Cheap, easy to use. Extend the rod with a straight edge for greater accuracy
2. Use a lazer chain alignment tool. Costs more, is very easy to use and accurate
3. Measure wheel centre to swingarm pivot either side. Exhaust gets in the way.
4. Use a bricklayers line (has a bit of stretch) to check rear wheel alignment with front wheel. Needs a lot of patience to get it right.
5. If you trust the swingarm marks then use them. Start with the chain too slack and wind each side in small increments until marks are the same and tension is right. Doing it this way removes any error due to possible clearance between adjuster block and spindle as the block is hard against the spindle all the time.
I have found that with the ATAS the chain slack on centre stand is 5mm greater than when on side stand. That's as expected as the suspension is at max extension when on centre stand. The handbook says set chain tension on side stand at 45 to 55 mm. So add 5 mm to that when setting up on centre stand.
I use item 1 above - a cheapo auction site tool. Amazingly when this arrived the rod was curved (no kidding). After some playing about with a set square, I have got it set so the curve is upwards so I can use it. I am thinking of getting a laser alignment tool as it will be handier to carry on a trip.
I once tried to do item 4 above as I suspected a twisted frame on an nc750, but I gave up as getting the bits of string to just kiss the front of the rear tyre was just about impossible and you have to work pretty low down because of all the bits of machinery hanging down below the bike.
I discovered that a properly adjusted chain on the NC750 would just miss the underside of the swingarm when the bike was on the sidestand, and when you put it on the centre stand it just touched and made a satisfying slight clacking sound when flicked upwards. I checked on the AT and found it to be the same. This makes for an easy check when out on a ride
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh yes using a stretch line is so much fun. You can have hours of fun getting that kiss on the front of the rear tyre. Then your efforts are rewarded by an equal amount of fun getting the front wheel straight. Then you walk into the line and the fun starts all over again. How can you compare that with a boring lazer tool.
 

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well here's the answer to your question Kev - and it's pretty alarming
With the wheel alignment set via my chain tool as per the pic below, the distances from the aluminium block to the outer edge of the last groove graduation were 14.8mm left side and 12.4mm right side (brake side)
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well that's proof that the marks cant be relied on. I wonder if the blocks have fore and aft play on the spindles. I will check when my alignment tool arrives.
 

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Speaking about the rear wheel. On the French forum they found a mistake i the workshop manual.
The collar on the rear wheel axle, left and right, are not the same. The collar on the sprocket site has a shoulder the brake side doesn't. In the workshop manual it's contrary. In the parts catalog it's ok.
 

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Haha Bartho - now I'm confused. Is the pic you posted right or wrong? And can we tell from just looking at the bike or do we have to strip out the axle?
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good post from Bartho.
You can clearly see the spacers on the bike. The drive side needs the flange on the spacer as it sits against the swingarm. The Non drive side sits against the brake which is smaller diameter so no flange needed
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I have now used the mechanical chain alignment tool to set up my new ATAS rear wheel with the correct chain slack and aligned true.
I have come up with exactly the same error on the alignment marks as MIKE510. My chain is brand new so my measurements differ as the wheel is further forward, but the side to side error is the same as MIKE510. I have used the same reference points as MIKE510 for measurement and used a Vernier gauge. I have also established that the adjuster blocks have a clearance on the wheel spindle so you need to keep them snugged up against the axle when doing alignment checks
Chain slack set to 49mm on side stand, (required range for ATAS 45 - 55)
MIKE510 Drive Side 14.8mm Non Drive Side 12.4mm Side to Side Alignment Mark Error 2.4 mm
BIGKEV2 Drive Side 18.4 mm Non Drive Side 16.0mm Side to Side Alignment Mark Error 2.4 mm
 

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Speaking about the rear wheel. On the French forum they found a mistake i the workshop manual.
The collar on the rear wheel axle, left and right, are not the same. The collar on the sprocket site has a shoulder the brake side doesn't. In the workshop manual it's contrary. In the parts catalog it's ok.
Yeah I noticed this problem and posted about it here a few months back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It would make sense for the Techs to use a mech or lazer alignment gauge rather than the marks as it takes seconds to fit the gauge and use it. Taking the chain guard off and replacing it actually takes longer than using the tool but still dead easy to do. Now that I have the wheel lined up I might go back and do a confirmation check with a stretch line on the wheels.
 
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