[bdalameda]

I have heard that Motobatt is a subsidiary of Yuasa. They make a Lithium alternative to the HY110 that I have heard works well:

MPLX6.0-HP Motobatt LifePo4 Lithium Battery Replaces MBTX4U, MBTZ7S, MBTX7U Honda 31500-MKK-A02 Eliiy Power HY110

Motobatt Pro Lithium High Performance Racing batteries are the leader in the Powersports Industry and LifPo4 Batteries Application: The safest most stable chemistry available,utilizing Dynamic cell balancing to maximize cranking power. Durable with up to 3 Times life, no sulfation issues and low...

www.motobatt.us

https://www.motobatt.us/documents/MOTOBATT-catalog-2022.pdf

 

[rphansberry]

Back on using AGM batteries in a bike built for Lithium, I think its worth mentioning the fires surrounding Lithium batteries being linked to incorrect charging. Now, I am not sure if the voltage regulator is set to different voltages, but I would be really careful when hooking up an external charger. Luckily, you are moving to the safer of the two battery chemistries, but i would research the voltage regulator settings, or you may end up with shortened life span. Throw any Lithium charging equipment in the bin.

 

[DoubleThumper]

Back on using AGM batteries in a bike built for Lithium, I think its worth mentioning the fires surrounding Lithium batteries being linked to incorrect charging. Now, I am not sure if the voltage regulator is set to different voltages, but I would be really careful when hooking up an external charger. Luckily, you are moving to the safer of the two battery chemistries, but i would research the voltage regulator settings, or you may end up with shortened life span. Throw any Lithium charging equipment in the bin.

Most credible lithium-based batteries for vehicle applications include an onboard Battery Management System (BMS). Its job includes protecting the cells from over and under power conditions. This is independent of the vehicle charging system.

Welcome to the Forum @rphansberry.

Feel free to introduce yourself at the New Member Introductions area of the Forum.

 

[bdalameda]

Back on using AGM batteries in a bike built for Lithium, I think its worth mentioning the fires surrounding Lithium batteries being linked to incorrect charging. Now, I am not sure if the voltage regulator is set to different voltages, but I would be really careful when hooking up an external charger. Luckily, you are moving to the safer of the two battery chemistries, but i would research the voltage regulator settings, or you may end up with shortened life span. Throw any Lithium charging equipment in the bin.

Almost all lithium motorcycle batteries are LifePo4 which are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. These are much more thermally stable than regular lithoum batteries and not subject to the temperature and charging run-away conditions:
Lithium iron phosphate has generally excellent thermal and chemical stability, staying cooler in higher temperatures and at low risk of combustion, whereas LCO batteries have a higher flammability rate.

 

[mike5100]

Mines a CRF1000L 2019 and I don't think it came with a lithium battery. Did they change the spec at the end of the model year. I bought mine in March so it was probably made at the end of 2018 (but it's definitely the upgraded 2019 model with Throttle by wire etc)
Mike

update - I checked my owner's manual and it is indeed a lithium battery. It seems Ok at 4.5 years and 42k miles, but I seem to remember last year in winter it wasn't ok and I stuck my Accumate Pro charger on it overnight. 😱 No explosions and it seemed to do the trick
Mike

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

Having not used my 2019 AT for a while, when I went to start it today the battery was not up to it so I jumped it. When I got back I put it on charge using my lithium battery charger but got lights on to say battery may be defective. I took the battery out and found it was not the recommended HY110 lithium, but a Yuasa YTZ7S.

I am not going to pay £500+ for the "correct" battery, so the question is, is it ok to use an AGM battery or will it bugger something up?

Yes I know it seems to have been ok so far and that other makes of lithium battery are cheaper but I would prefer to use AGM if it wont harm anything.

I understand Lithium's are lighter, don't discharge as quickly etc. etc. but I have heard of too many Lithium batteries catching fire and they are silly expensive. Also the weight increase of AGM is less than a bit of fuel in the tank or eating lunch!

As i already wrote and pointed out few times the only good alternative to the OEM 18-24 battery is : Aliant YLP14

 

[mike5100]

As i already wrote and pointed out few times the only good alternative to the OEM 18-24 battery is : Aliant YLP14

Well worth knowing that Ghostrider. Sportsbike shop have them for £138 which is quite a bit better than the honda oem at £530. Could you explain a bit more why you have concluded that they are such a good alternative?
Mike

 

[mike5100]

Back on using AGM batteries in a bike built for Lithium, I think its worth mentioning the fires surrounding Lithium batteries being linked to incorrect charging. Now, I am not sure if the voltage regulator is set to different voltages, but I would be really careful when hooking up an external charger. Luckily, you are moving to the safer of the two battery chemistries, but i would research the voltage regulator settings, or you may end up with shortened life span. Throw any Lithium charging equipment in the bin.

But surely the voltage regulator would only come into play while the bike was being driven. Hooking up an external (old style of course) charger to the replacement AGM battery would be completely safe surely? If you had any worries you could take the positive wires off the battery and then connect the charger (or take the battery completely off the bike).
Mike

 

[bdalameda]

As i already wrote and pointed out few times the only good alternative to the OEM 18-24 battery is : Aliant YLP14

There are quite few other good alternatives to the OEM battery, Motobatt and EarthX are a couple and I'm sure there are many more.

 

[Art]

For my two penn’orth and keeping it simple the two main considerations for a motorcycle battery should be current draw (Ah) and cranking performance (CCA), in both cases more is better so in conclusion...

Lithium (LiFePo40) batteries are better for cranking (assuming the ambient temperature doesn't drop below 0°C).

Lead Acid (PbH2SO4) batteries are better for current draw and ease of maintenance.

Simply because the reduced Ah capacity of lithium batteries, when compared to lead/acid batteries, affects how much current can be drawn for auxiliaries (heated clothing, heated grips, lights etc.) For most motorcycles this isn’t an issue because auxiliaries are only drawing current when the engine is running and the charging system is topping up the battery’s level of charge. Standby current drain (immobilisers, trackers, alarms, clocks etc) when the motorcycle is parked up for extended periods is an issue.

I’ve not considered life expectancy since despite manufacturer claims I’ve heard of too many lithium batteries failing inside 2 or 3 years and I’ve personal experience of lead acid batteries lasting for 9 years and more.

For my hard earned best value by specification has to be the Yuasa YTZ7S (12v 6.3Ah 130 CCA) AGM lead acid battery (113L x 70W x 105H) currently priced at £63.15 including (UK mainland) delivery from Tayna Batteries.

Yuasa YTZ7S High Performance MF Motorcycle Battery

<h4>Yuasa</h4> <i>Advanced Engineering, Premium Quality, Unmatched Reliability</i> GS Yuasa located in Japan, all started in 1895 and is one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world. Manufacturing batteries for the automotive, commercial and infrastructure markets. Yuasa Battery, Inc...

www.tayna.co.uk

Note at 12v 6.3Ah 130 CCA Yuasa's YTZ7S appears to be a higher specification than Eliiy Power's HY110 at 12v 6 Ah 120 CCA

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

Note at 12v 6.3Ah 130 CCA Yuasa's YTZ7S appears to be a higher specification than Eliiy Power's HY110 at 12v 6 Ah 120 CCA

In real life the HY110 it is a 14 ah , so the little ytz7s had no chance. Few members of the forum already did the mistake.

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

There are quite few other good alternatives to the OEM battery, Motobatt and EarthX are a couple and I'm sure there are many more.

Could be , did not tested , cannot vouche

 

[DoubleThumper]

I replaced a Yuasa's YTZ7S with a physically smaller LiFePO4 "equivalent" two years ago for $100 Cdn and it has been behaving like a charm in extreme hot and cold season weather. It even has an integrated battery level status indicator.

I realize two years is not statistically significant, but the bike beats well as anytime before.

 

[Art]

In real life the HY110 it is a 14 ah , so the little ytz7s had no chance. Few members of the forum already did the mistake.

Oh no its not, why would a manufacturer claim a product to be a lower specification than it is?

The fact is Eliiy Power's HY110 lithium LiFePO4 battery is a 6Ah battery as stated, claimed and tested to industry standard testing procedures by the manufacturer, Eliiy Power.

Case in point @Jag (discussion starter) has had a Yuasa YTZ7S battery in his 2019 AT for over 18 months without issue apart from one time when it became flat after standing for a while and now, having been charged, is back in service.

For your information

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

Oh no its not, why would a manufacturer claim a product to be a lower specification than it is?

The fact is Eliiy Power's HY110 lithium LiFePO4 battery is a 6Ah battery as stated, claimed and tested to industry standard testing procedures by the manufacturer, Eliiy Power.

Case in point @Jag (discussion starter) has had a Yuasa YTZ7S battery in his 2019 AT for over 18 months without issue apart from one time when it became flat after standing for a while and now, having been charged, is back in service.

For your information

6.0 amp "rated capacity" Try to crank a CRF1100 @ -5 celsius with an YTZ7S.........
also the cousin of the brother of a friend of mine had one ...

 

[Art]

6.0 amp "rated capacity" Try to crank a CRF1100 @ -5 celsius with an YTZ7S.........
also the cousin of the brother of a friend of mine had one ...

Lets consider the FACTS over HEARSAY and the FACTS here are:

In terms of current draw the Yuasa YTZ7S and Eiily Power HY110 batteries are both rated exactly the same at 6 Ah.

To compare the cranking performance we need to compare the Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) rating which is an indication of how many amps a fully charged 12v battery in tip top condition can supply for a duration of 30 seconds at minus 18°C while the voltage remains above 7.2v.

Therefore on paper Yuasa's YTZ7S 6 Ah, 130 CCA battery has a higher specification than Elliy Power's HY110 6 Ah, 120 CCA battery.

Obviously in real life any given battery's performance will be directly affected by it's condition, level of charge and ability to hold that level of charge.

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

Lets consider the FACTS over HEARSAY and the FACTS here are:
.

Reading some labels with supposed data , is not a fact .
Can understand you have no clue about this Eilly as you never work with them ; but , as above , a YTZ7s is underpowered for this bike .
That´s a fact

 

[Art]

My point, which you seem to totally miss, is that the YTZ7S appears to be of a higher specification than the HY110 and that is supported by comparison of the manufacturers specifications/claims.

To be noted here is that the CCA rating of lead-acid motorcycle starter batteries is arrived at by testing to European Standard EN 50342-7. As far as I'm aware there is no equivalent CCA rating standard or testing procedure applicable to lithium motorcycle starter batteries and the CCA ratings for lithium batteries shown by the manufacturers are what have become known as a 'lead-acid equivalent' rating which can sometimes be seen in lithium battery specifications as 'PBEQ'.

That said I agree that a 6 Ah starter battery rated at 120 or 130 CCA is most probably under powered for an 1100cc twin cylinder engine with a 10:1 compression ratio, which is probably why Honda fit the 11.8 Ah 230 CCA Yuasa YTZ14S to the NT1100.

Of course there are many factors that need to be taken into consideration when comparing the performances of any two batteries, especially if one is lead-acid and the other lithium, however, the FACT remains that a 6 Ah starter battery rated at 130 CCA is of a higher specification than one rated at 120 CCA.

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

My point, which you seem to totally miss, is that the YTZ7S appears to be of a higher specification than the HY110 and that is supported by comparison of the manufacturers specifications/claims.

Understood your point , i´m try to tell you the HY110 is comparable to a 14AH . Is also well known the ytz14s on cmx1100 and nt1100 is pretty lazy even with 15 Celsius .
Telling you as Honda tech/ engineer not as owner.

 

[Art]

Understood your point , i´m try to tell you the HY110 is comparable to a 14AH . Is also well known the ytz14s on cmx1100 and nt1100 is pretty lazy even with 15 Celsius .
Telling you as Honda tech/ engineer not as owner.

As a Honda tech/engineer I'd expect you to know it's the CCA rating that makes for lazy cranking not the Ah rating, the obvious assumption being that the battery is in a good condition. If the HY110 battery really is comparable to the YTZ14S battery then I'd expect Eliiy Power to come out and claim as much, but surprise, surprise, they do not.