[Ghostrider.1127]

As a Honda tech/engineer I'd expect you to know it's the CCA rating that makes for lazy cranking not the Ah rating, the obvious assumption being that the battery is in a good condition. If the HY110 battery really is comparable to the YTZ14S battery then I'd expect Eliiy Power to come out and claim as much, but surprise, surprise, they do not.

CCA rating ALSO indicate that , sure .
I`m also not expecting you understand the reasons , as simple user you can just read/search some specs.

For me you can buy a YTZ7s and call a tow truck than . I have better to do than discuss with noobs over data sheet

 

[Art]

I'll agree to disagree, apart from enlightening readers with the FACTS this thread is going nowhere. Although I would point out as an apprentice served Motor Vehicle Technician I find your "simple user" and "noob" assumptions to be insulting.

No need to apologise

 

[DoubleThumper]

I wish I could be more simple.

In the end we are ultimately, simple.

 

[Trek Moto]

My 400cc dirt bike came with a YTZ7S and based on my experience with that application I wouldn’t feel warm and fuzzy inside if there was one in my AT. Under optimal conditions it’s was just fine. When conditions got challenging, not so much.

 

[Rjupiter]

Lithium battery’s need to warm up in cold temperatures before being used. I turn my ignition on get all gear on, turn on comms, etc., then after 40 seconds to a minute it will crank like it’s 70 degrees instead of 20 degrees Fahrenheit. I routinely ride in sub 20 degrees with heated gear plugged in a the stock battery is just fine. The appearance of slow cranking and “lack of cranking power” is a procedural thing.

 

[mike5100]

Lithium battery’s need to warm up in cold temperatures before being used. I turn my ignition on get all gear on, turn on comms, etc., then after 40 seconds to a minute it will crank like it’s 70 degrees instead of 20 degrees Fahrenheit. I routinely ride in sub 20 degrees with heated gear plugged in a the stock battery is just fine. The appearance of slow cranking and “lack of cranking power” is a procedural thing.

Interesting - I will try that as I have noticed that if I haven't ridden the bike for a couple of weeks in cold weather, it's slow to crank.
Mike

 

[rphansberry]

Most credible lithium-based batteries for vehicle applications include an onboard Battery Management System (BMS). Its job includes protecting the cells from over and under power conditions. This is independent of the vehicle charging system.

Welcome to the Forum @rphansberry.

Feel free to introduce yourself at the New Member Introductions area of the Forum.

Just watching another News article about a Lithium battery fire and it triggered some reading. I'm glad @DoubleThumper used the term "credible lithium based batteries" using protection systems, because it appears some batteries may not have it. I still would be cautious with this shift away from standard parts.

https://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=page&id=18&chapter=1

 

[Art]

Comparing Eliiy Power's (lithium) HYY110 and Yuasa's (lead-acid AGM) YTZ7S batteries. It seems to me all the pros for the lithium battery are myths and needs created by a dedicated sales team, manufacturers and suppliers where the need does not really exist, some examples:

Lightweight - The HY110 weighs in at 1.4Kg vs the YTZ7S at 2.1Kg, the actual weight saving being an insignificant 700g which is less than a Dickinson & Morris XL Melton Mowbray pork pie!

Smaller size - The HY110 at 112 x 70 x 110 = 8,624cc which is 319cc larger than the YTZ7S at 113 x 70 x 105 = 8,305cc

Higher cranking power - How is the claimed extra power measured, CCA by weight perhaps? The HY110 has a claimed rating of 120 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) vs the YTZ7S which is rated and tested to European Standards (EN) at 130 CCA.

Low self discharge rate - If true I suspect it would be insignificant and in any case would only apply to a disconnected battery, with the battery fitted on the motorcycle the discharge rate will mostly be determined by the standby current draw which means that the 6.0Ah HY110 will discharge quicker than the 6.3 Ah YTZ7S but its marginal and will more likely vary from battery to battery depending on the battery's level of charge and overall condition.

Faster charging times - A 3A charger will fully charge a 6 Ah battery in 2 hours (6Ah/3A=2 hours) therefore at 6.3 Ah the YTZ7S will take 6 minutes longer although I'd only recommend fast charging any battery in an emergency situation, better is to use a suitable motorcycle specific <1A battery maintenance charger.

Cost - The comparisons mostly seem to be £'s (or $'s) by claimed lead-acid battery failures vs lithium battery expected service life. The knowledge base here and on other motorcycle forums suggests those figures have been grossly manipulated to favour the lithium battery. Note too that the lithium battery manufacturers do not offer any guarantees or warranties over and above what the lead-acid battery manufacturers offer and the question to ask is why?

No internal liquids to spill - This is true when comparing to a flooded wet cell lead-acid battery, however, the YTZ7S is an Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) battery, all the acid is absorbed and the battery is sealed for life. There is no risk of spillage in normal use which also means lead-acid AGM batteries can also be mounted at various angles.

 

[Trek Moto]

Comparing Eliiy Power's (lithium) HYY110 and Yuasa's (lead-acid AGM) YTZ7S batteries. It seems to me all the pros for the lithium battery are myths and needs created by a dedicated sales team, manufacturers and suppliers where the need does not really exist, some examples:

Maybe in this application, but certainly not all. My 2017 AT specs a YTZ14S, and my Antigravity lithium equivalent saved roughly 6 pounds over the OEM Yuasa. Same story with my DRZ, roughly 5 lb weight savings. Performance has been every bit as advertised, particularly with the DRZ. And compared to generic aftermarket batteries…..well, most of those suck and I don’t waste my time with them. It’s been my experience that in practice, the advantages over AGM are enough to warrant the price difference.

 

[Art]

For the knowledge base I'm assuming you're referring to Antigravity's AG1201 and not their lesser AG801

 

[Trek Moto]

My experience with Antigravity is with an ATZ10-RS in my Africa Twin and an ATZ7-RS in my DRZ.

 

[Art]

If that worked for you... although it should be pointed out that despite Antigravity's claim that their 10 Ah (PbEq) ATZ10-RS is a direct replacement for Yuasa's YTZ10S, YTZ12S and YTZ14S at 10 Ah (PbEq) the ATZ10-RS is a little under capacity as a direct replacement for the 11.6 Ah YTZ12S and the 11.8 Ah YTZ14S. However since that capacity is mostly only required to power accessories it's probably of little consequence since for the most part the engine will be running and the charging system will be topping up the battery. Unless of course you're on an extended winter ride with heated grips, heated clothing and additional lighting, in which case it could well be a flat battery waiting to happen.

Also worth mention here is starting performance where Antigravity test and rate their ATZ10-RS at 360 Cranking Amps (CA) and the Yuasa's are tested and rated at 230 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA). When comparing battery specifications it's incorrect to compare CA to CCA because CA are tested and rated at 0°C (32°F) and CCA are tested and rated at -18°C (0°F) and, as we all know, the colder it gets the more a battery will struggle to deliver what it says on the box.

 

[Trek Moto]

If that worked for you... although it should be pointed out that despite Antigravity's claim that their 10 Ah (PbEq) ATZ10-RS is a direct replacement for Yuasa's YTZ10S, YTZ12S and YTZ14S at 10 Ah (PbEq) the ATZ10-RS is a little under capacity as a direct replacement for the 11.6 Ah YTZ12S and the 11.8 Ah YTZ14S. However since that capacity is mostly only required to power accessories it's probably of little consequence since for the most part the engine will be running and the charging system will be topping up the battery. Unless of course you're on an extended winter ride with heated grips, heated clothing and additional lighting, in which case it could well be a flat battery waiting to happen.

Also worth mention here is starting performance where Antigravity test and rate their ATZ10-RS at 360 Cranking Amps (CA) and the Yuasa's are tested and rated at 230 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA). When comparing battery specifications it's incorrect to compare CA to CCA because CA are tested and rated at 0°C (32°F) and CCA are tested and rated at -18°C (0°F) and, as we all know, the colder it gets the more a battery will struggle to deliver what it says on the box.

I agree with everything you said here. I haven’t ridden with all my heated gear on high nor do I have auxiliary lights yet but I just completed a 5 day trip to Utah where I typically spent 8 hours per day on the bike, with plenty of stops and starts, and usually with my Oxford heated grips and Warm & Safe jacket on high, and the only “issue” I had was noticeable slower cranking on the first start of the day when it was 40*F. I have Warm & Safe heated gloves, too, and I just ordered a set of Baja Designs fog lights so soon enough I’ll be increasing the load on the battery significantly. I don’t anticipate changing issues but if I do have trouble I’ll be sure to report back. Oh, I also had my TomTom Rider 550 on and my iPhone plugged in at all times, though even together that’s not much of a load.

 

[Ghostrider.1127]

From 2024 no HY110 anymore

 

[ViperTech18]

Good Info!!!. The battery specs are better?

 

[Art]

Good Info!!!. The battery specs are better?

I'm not so sure the battery specifications are any better, look to be about the same to me...

Eliiy Power HY110 12v, 6Ah, 72Wh
Shyrich HJ13L-FPZ 12v, 6Ah, 72Wh


I did notice the Eliiy Power HY110 is claimed to be rated at 120CCA and the Skyrich HJ13L-FPZ is claimed to be rated at 420CCA but I'm very sceptical when CCA ratings are quoted against lithium batteries because the CCA rating is specific to lead-acid batteries and includes testing discharge, recovery and charging down to -18°C. Lithium batteries are normally CA rated which means they are tested down to 0°C (32°F). One point of concern I have here is the industry advice tends to be not to charge lithium batteries in ambient temperatures below 0°C (32°F) but isn't that exactly what happens every time the engine is started and run at sub 0°C (32°F) temperatures when the charging system charges the battery?

Another concern I have is that I've noticed some lithium battery specifications are shown as 'Lead Acid Equivalent (EQPb)' when quoting the big numbers, is that the truth or are the marketing bods pulling the wool? No doubt every Tom, Dick and Harriett will now chip in with how good their lithium batteries are and I've no argument there, I'd just like to know what the real numbers are for an honest and meaningful comparison. If anyone can explain that and show their sources I, we, Tom, Dick and Harriette will all be the more knowledgeable for it.

in the meantime I'm more than happy to have tried and tested AGM lead-acid batteries in all my vehicles.

 

[neanderthal]

I had aux lights wired directly to my battery and left them on a few months after picking up my 2018. Obviously, that killed the battery. Tried Honda, but I wasn't willing to pay $600 for a battery (early/ mid 2019.) I went to Batteries and Bulbs with my old one and they had their generic version (AGM) in the correct size for less than $100. I bought, stuck it in my bike and rode with that thing in for a couple of years until I wrecked it by leaving the lights on again. I replaced it with the same battery and it has been in my bike until about 2- 3 months ago when it just gave up the ghost and couldn't start the bike any more. Despite my charging it and it reading as charged.

Went to get another one at B&B but asked if they had a lithium one. Turned out they do, and it was also just under $100, so that's what has been in my bike since then.
I've back back surgery in the interim, so the bike has been parked, and with the weather getting colder it wouldn't start. Took it out, charged it and no problems.

I should note, I don't let the battery "warm up" by turning on the ignition and waiting, before starting. I tend to start it within a few seconds of turning on the ignition, so that's something I need to implement in my starting procedure. I live in an apartment complex and while there is a parking garage, my parking is near the top floor, so my bike is more exposed to the elements than if I was one or two floors lower. I have noticed that when it is cold it struggles to start more than when the weather is more amenable.

Long story short. I've had my 2018 Africa Twin since April 2019. About Jun/ July of 2019 I replaced that battery with an AGM battery and that has been in the bike since then until just recently. Using an AGM battery of the right size and capacity should pose no problems for anyone thinking of doing the same.

Your milage may vary.

 

[Jag]

Lots of interesting replies here and on another almost identical thread I found from a couple of years ago. Many people have said there are alternative makes of Lithium battery for much less money than the recommended one, other people have mentioned size of battery box on different year bikes, and there have been disagreements about how to evaluate a AGM capacity to a Lithium, but, I cant see that anyone who may have knowledge of charging systems or of the electrics on Honda Africa Twins (in this case 2019) has been able to answer the question "will putting an AGM battery on a bike on which the makers install and recommend a Lithium battery, do any damage to the bike / charging system / wiring harness etc?"
I would like to use an AGM for my own reasons that I won't go into for fear of replies to everything except the question asked, but if anyone is able to answer the question, I would be grateful.

 

[DoubleThumper]

Vehicle-based LiFePO4 batteries are designed with that application in mind, many replacing lead-based batteries.

Good quality LiFePO4 batteries have battery management systems onboard for charging and discharging management. If anything, the bike, ... or more correctly ..., the user of the bike will likely adversely affect the LiFePO4 versus it affecting the bike. Example: The LiFePO4 will go into protection mode and shutdown - which typically looks like a dead battery.

 

[Trek Moto]

Lots of interesting replies here and on another almost identical thread I found from a couple of years ago. Many people have said there are alternative makes of Lithium battery for much less money than the recommended one, other people have mentioned size of battery box on different year bikes, and there have been disagreements about how to evaluate a AGM capacity to a Lithium, but, I cant see that anyone who may have knowledge of charging systems or of the electrics on Honda Africa Twins (in this case 2019) has been able to answer the question "will putting an AGM battery on a bike on which the makers install and recommend a Lithium battery, do any damage to the bike / charging system / wiring harness etc?"
I would like to use an AGM for my own reasons that I won't go into for fear of replies to everything except the question asked, but if anyone is able to answer the question, I would be grateful.

No.